SAR-8 or M1A

S

Smiley

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I want to purchase a .308 rifle that is semi-auto and that i can scope for shooting from 100 to 300 yards max. I have looked at both springfield armorys SAR-8 and the M1A. I like both styles and they will cost me almost the same. (SAR-8 a little less). I really like the look of the SAR-8 as i have been looking for a G3 clone but dont really trust the ones i have seen around here. (century, Cetme) I dont know anything about FALs so i am shying away from them. The M1A has the more PC look to it so that is actually a plus around the North East. Are these rifles good for accuracy? I will be doing informal competeing with my buddies. I intend to scope but also want to be able to take it off for just plain sights. Which is more accurate? needs less work for the accuracy? Also a big deal is realibility. Not currently reloading and not for the near future either.

Thanks
 
The earlier Greek SAR-3/8's are very good and should get you <2moa. The newer SAR-8's are not so hot in every category. Pretty much all HK rifles destroy the brass, but since that's not an issue with you... The HK claw lock scope mount is very easy to install/remove but it's very expensive (~$400 for the mount or ~$900 for a German army setup that includes scope).

Depending on which options, the M1A should get you under, or well under, 2moa. I couldn't give you price estimates or ease of installation for a scope, but they are available.

Both are good and reliable, but of the two, only the M1A can you currently buy new, with factory backing. Mags are expensive for both.

You might investigate the FAL option a bit more. Good ones can be had for a reasonable price and are reliable given proper assembly. A good scope mount, like the DSA, costs around $100.
 
Definately check out the FAL more. All three are very good rifles, but all deserve equal attention before a buy. The FAL, however, will be much cheaper for an adequate rifle, or, for the same price as a new M1A, you can have an FAL custom built for you.

Reconsider a scope if all you're going to do is shoot up to 300 yds. If fact, reconsider the .308. The real fun with these rifles starts at 300 yds (unless you're using Fred's simulated distance targets, where multiple 25 yd offhand shots in the A-zone is awful hard!) Open sights are really much better than today's lazy society thinks. Especially good peep sights.

On mounting scopes, I don't know about the G3, but the FAL and M1A scope solutions are pretty easy. The best FAL types replace the dust cover but also use the receiver as support. DSA sells them for $100 I think. For the M1A, there are many types, the ARMS #18, the Leatherwood, the DPMS...there are several. Many are really good, and will run from $140 to $300 or so. Mounting them is really quite simple, as the receiver is already built for a scope mount.

Here's one thing to think about. Only one of these rifles will allow you to compete in a DCM national match...the M1A. If you really get into shooting it, you can join a club and compete in DCM matches.
 
Myself I would go with the M-14 out of your choices of the M-14 or SAR-8. If I am remember right the new SAR-8 they are putting out has the alunimum reciever with the trunion pinned in instead of a sheet metal reciever with the trunion welded in. Does this make a difference? I'm not sure but myself but from a safety standpoint, I'd pass on it.
Now as far as weapon design itself, I still by far prefer the M-14 over the HK-91. The HK has accuracy and reliability going for it but after that, it pretty much falls apart. The trigger is heavy, the safety and magazine release are too far foreward to work without shifting your grip, there is no bolt hold open device after the last round is fired, the charging handle is awkward to work with, the stock is too short for American style shooting (Germans shoot with a more heads up position where as Americans get their heads down onto the stock for a better stock weld), the recoil is sharper, the sights need a special tool to be adjusted, brass is ejected with enough force that it's rare you find your brass again and it's more often than mangled when you do find it anyways. Parts are harder to come by and more expensive when you do and if your barrel ever wears out, it's almost impossible to replace the barrel without damaging the reciever. The M-14 on the other hand is every bit as reliable and maybe even more accurate than the HK and you can get that performance without the awkward handling chacteristics of the HK system.
 
I am keeping my distance to a 300yard max for the simple fact that there are no ranges with anything longer range. Also up in the Northeast, long distance shots don't present themselves all that much. more brush and hills. I intend to use both iron sights and scope. I guess im just looking for a rifle that i can actually get that i dont have to remember which receiver its built on because one could work 100% and another could be a POS. The springfield M1A looks like it is winning out but i would like to hear more about peoples personal experiences with teh SAR-8 type rifles and otehrs.
 
taking into consideration "less work for accuracy"...

between your initial two options i always like the hk91 better, i think the sar-8 is coming from brazil like their 1911 models. the hk is more ammo tolerent (good when shooting surplus), less dirt sensitive (you can drop it, pick it up and keep shooting), just as accurate without tuning and more stable (the last M1A i had had a tendency to sting, i think it was battering the wood to death).

on my hk, i could reach the safety without shifting my shooting grip, the trigger is heavy but it can be lightened without resorting to a replacement match trigger group($$$), i liked the charging handle because it didn't fly back and forth during shooting (it much faster and more ergomomic as it is operated with the left hand (you maintain your shooting grip) it does mangle brass and will entertain your shooting partners with flying hot brass :eek: but, you don't reload so who cares :D. i shoot "heads up" european style, but if you want a cheek weld there are factory and aftermarket add-on cheek rest.

having written all the above, i think you should check out the fal too. for the price range of the other two guns, you can get a gun a more ergonomic as the hk with a better trigger than the M1A, more comfortable stock (cheek weldable), easily as accurate as either and cheaper to maintain to boot.
 
Smiley
My next and hopefully last (ya right) is going to be the Springfield M1A, standard field grade. I have a friend that can get a deal on scope mounts, USGI unissued fiberglass stocks that are primered. He also just got 10 4x16x40MM Simmons Blazer scopes that I am sure he would make you a deal on. Throw a good Harris Bipod on it, paint the stock anywhy you want and your good to go out to 300 easy and 600 or 700 yards if you find a place to shoot.
As for the reloading check out http://www.midwayusa.com
single stage Lee Anniversary kits for I think $69, 1x Winchester brass 500 piece for about $50 and I have a great load if you need one.


Good Luck

Karsten

And if anyone tries to sell you a Polytech M1A....Run very fast. cheap materials, I have heard of barrels being shot out rapidly. The one I saw even came with a cracked stock NIB. A long U shaped crack between the reciever and trigger group on the right side. Great quality stuff get the Springfield fro sure.

[Edited by Karsten on 01-30-2001 at 07:28 PM]
 
My last choice would be an HK or clone. The M1A is okay, but I have 25 new metric 20-round mags at home, waiting for the day when I purchase a DS Arms FN gun. My understanding is that-superior FN ergonomics aside- M1A's take much more work to keep "match accurate". Edmund Rowe has both a HB match and standard version...
 
SAR 8

Stay away from the NEW aluminum reciever versions...............heard they start expanding when shot a lot, and that ain't good..........
IF you can find a pre ban Greek model, ok, if not stick with the M1A..........at least if it's not exactly what / or / how you want it, it CAN be made more accurate.
And we KNOW they definitely will stay together......
 
When we talk about pre ban for the SAR-8 are we talking about the 1994 date or another one?

Also, how can i tell if it is a Greek model were all Springfield SAR-8s made in Greece and the others like Hesse and Century would be the "others"?


What is a good price for FAL and what brands should i look for. the store i am going to this weekend has four types of the G3 and three FALs.
 
The good SAR-3 and SAR-8's were made by Hellenic Arms in Greece and should be stamped as such, either on the magwell or the top receiver rail (often both). They are made of stamped steel, just like the Oberndorf HK's, on HK machinery.

The new SAR-8 uses the Federal Arms cast aluminium receiver that is both ugly and questionable. These often arrive with out of alignment sights and poorly modified gripframes (auto gripframe, "clipped and pinned" to be used with the semi-auto receiver shelf) that may result in failures to eject.

A FAL with either an Imbel or DSA receiver is a good bet. If it's a complete DSA gun (not a kitted-up one), you shouldn't have any problems. If it's Imbel, it's probably kitted, but the receiver is excellent and most problems, if any are found, are easy to rectify.

Hesse guns (of any type, IMO) are to be avoided.

Entreprise is getting better, but I still wonder.
 
ranking fals

1) dsa - a true american-made fal from metric blueprints; future collector value. about $1500

2) ibel/entreprise receiver w/stg58 parts - have it put together, with any options you like, by a good fal smith for a great shooter. about $1200 up

3) century/entreprise complete rifles - a working shooter, some are outstanding :) some are not :barf:. a good stop gap to the diminishing supply of fal parts; you can always send it to a smith later if it needs it. century about $600, entreprise from about $1000
 
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