cowboys1062
New member
I would like to know the difference between a Santa Fe Hawken and a Hawken muzzleloader. Whats the difference between the two?
Santa Fe Hawken muzzleloader
- Thread starter cowboys1062
- Start date
Give us more info !!!
Man, wait till you see the replies your are going to get. In short, you need to provide more information this subject. ....
The name; "Hawken", has been kicked around a lot, perhaps too much. So much so, that it is now a "Generic" title, kind of like Skillsaw. .....
Be Safe !!!
Man, wait till you see the replies your are going to get. In short, you need to provide more information this subject. ....
The name; "Hawken", has been kicked around a lot, perhaps too much. So much so, that it is now a "Generic" title, kind of like Skillsaw. .....
Be Safe !!!
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DD4lifeusmc
New member
difference
in the term just Hawken it refers to an original.
In that scenario, one would need to google up some pictures and specs on an original and compare that to the Santa fe replica imitation.
But basically rememberI am speaking basically and generally.
---
When the hawken brothers moved to St. Louis, they listened to the fur trappers and mountainmen about the conditions out west.
Open plains, winds, bigger game animals and hostile native americans.
so they developed a new style rifle.
shorter barrel but heavier and mostly bored for bigger slugs (50, 54 ca).
But a half wood stock.
Most of the iron work was done in iron, rather than brass and such.
The iron work was not flashy thus spooking the game or giving away their position to the Hostiles.
The heavy barrel allowed for heavier charges thus more velocity and knock down power.
The heavier bullet had more knock down energy and would stay on course better in the wind of the open plains.
Mule deer of the open plains were almost 1/2 again bigger than the smaller white tails, and then they had Moose and elk and grizzly bears also.
Not to mention a determined mountain lion.
By using a 1/2 wood stock, they compensated in weight somewhat for the heavier barrel
The shorter barrel made it easier to carry on horse back and walking.
Easier to swing around in the heavy patches of willow along the rivers and marshes.
The thicker barrel also took abuse better when dropped, and it dissipated the heat from firing better, along with more of it being exposed to the open air.
Today a lot of manufacturers list their rifles as Hawken. based on the basic design, but yet they take free license and make changes.
They use a different shape trigger guard and sights, they sometimes use brass and german silver hardware. They use one tenon instead of two and vice versa.
But if you look at just the bare basics then it is Hawken - esque.
1/2 stock, heavy octagonal barrel, 28 to 34 inches long, open sights,
and normally in the 50 and 54 calibers. although some are made in 45 and 62 and 68 calibers. Poetic license on what they think will sell
in the term just Hawken it refers to an original.
In that scenario, one would need to google up some pictures and specs on an original and compare that to the Santa fe replica imitation.
But basically rememberI am speaking basically and generally.
---
When the hawken brothers moved to St. Louis, they listened to the fur trappers and mountainmen about the conditions out west.
Open plains, winds, bigger game animals and hostile native americans.
so they developed a new style rifle.
shorter barrel but heavier and mostly bored for bigger slugs (50, 54 ca).
But a half wood stock.
Most of the iron work was done in iron, rather than brass and such.
The iron work was not flashy thus spooking the game or giving away their position to the Hostiles.
The heavy barrel allowed for heavier charges thus more velocity and knock down power.
The heavier bullet had more knock down energy and would stay on course better in the wind of the open plains.
Mule deer of the open plains were almost 1/2 again bigger than the smaller white tails, and then they had Moose and elk and grizzly bears also.
Not to mention a determined mountain lion.
By using a 1/2 wood stock, they compensated in weight somewhat for the heavier barrel
The shorter barrel made it easier to carry on horse back and walking.
Easier to swing around in the heavy patches of willow along the rivers and marshes.
The thicker barrel also took abuse better when dropped, and it dissipated the heat from firing better, along with more of it being exposed to the open air.
Today a lot of manufacturers list their rifles as Hawken. based on the basic design, but yet they take free license and make changes.
They use a different shape trigger guard and sights, they sometimes use brass and german silver hardware. They use one tenon instead of two and vice versa.
But if you look at just the bare basics then it is Hawken - esque.
1/2 stock, heavy octagonal barrel, 28 to 34 inches long, open sights,
and normally in the 50 and 54 calibers. although some are made in 45 and 62 and 68 calibers. Poetic license on what they think will sell
DD4lifeusmc
New member
hawken
True, only by us late comers ( after 1900).
True, only by us late comers ( after 1900).
Model12Win
Moderator
The CVA Hawken is a good example of the type from what I gather. They were made by Samuel Hawken for buckskinners out west who need a short, light rifle for grizzly bear encounters and also to fight indians if need be.
The CVA Hawken, Investarm and TC's are a fair representation of a trade rifle from the mid 1870's with single barrel keys and brass furniture. Somebody on another forum summed it up best.
"The T/C Hawken is as much a Hawken as 1952 Ford, 2 1/2 ton truck is a Jaguar XK 120".
"The T/C Hawken is as much a Hawken as 1952 Ford, 2 1/2 ton truck is a Jaguar XK 120".
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The movies Jeremiah Johnson and Mountain Man created a public interest and a marketing niche.TC and CVA jumped on it,with both complete rifles and kits.They called them Hawkens.
They were very popular among those with new fond interest.
Then there were the old muzzle loader folks.Some had original rifles of the type,and some just had the interest before it was popular.
I do not intend to put anyone's rifle down.Those commercial rifles are pride and joy to many folks.No problem!!
Its been a long time,I may be fuzzy on my details.Look to the books by James Baird on the Hawken.
Sam and Jake Hawken made a specific pattern of rifle.There were time period variants and some custom or optional features,but an original or true replica is quite recognizable.
IIRC,It started out as Sam Hawken rifles,his brother joined him later.IIRC,the early rifles had a trigger guard that bent squarely up to the stock wrist,and the late guard arched in a semi-pistol grip style.
Two wedge keys and a patent hook breech allowed a rapid"field strip" so the breech end of the barrel could be submerged in the billy pot of hot water for a good cleaning.
I built mine to match a set of blueprints I have taken off an original rifle.For myself,a "Hawken" is at least an honest re creation of the original rifles by Sam and Jake.
For fun,look up J.P.Gemmer and Freund and Bro .
I have no issue with folks calling their TC or CVA a Hawken..Its all good,have fun.
They were very popular among those with new fond interest.
Then there were the old muzzle loader folks.Some had original rifles of the type,and some just had the interest before it was popular.
I do not intend to put anyone's rifle down.Those commercial rifles are pride and joy to many folks.No problem!!
Its been a long time,I may be fuzzy on my details.Look to the books by James Baird on the Hawken.
Sam and Jake Hawken made a specific pattern of rifle.There were time period variants and some custom or optional features,but an original or true replica is quite recognizable.
IIRC,It started out as Sam Hawken rifles,his brother joined him later.IIRC,the early rifles had a trigger guard that bent squarely up to the stock wrist,and the late guard arched in a semi-pistol grip style.
Two wedge keys and a patent hook breech allowed a rapid"field strip" so the breech end of the barrel could be submerged in the billy pot of hot water for a good cleaning.
I built mine to match a set of blueprints I have taken off an original rifle.For myself,a "Hawken" is at least an honest re creation of the original rifles by Sam and Jake.
For fun,look up J.P.Gemmer and Freund and Bro .
I have no issue with folks calling their TC or CVA a Hawken..Its all good,have fun.