SAIGA rifle question/help?

B

bluedog

New member
Folks,
I have been interested in a 7.62x39 semi and Bud's is selling the SAIGA "High Quality AK variant imported by Russian american Armory" version (their words, not mine). What is the value, reputation, and quality of this rifle? It comes with a 10 round mag and I don't know if additional mags are available or costly or if the AK mag will fit it. Any and all info and advice on this SAIGA will be appreciated! thanks!!!
 
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Got a buddy that just bought ( I assume you meant X 39 ??? ) there are forums dedicated just to the Siagas... seem to be better quality than some of the Milsurp stuff...

also heard there is a way to convert to AK mags, but they don't accep AK mags as purchased...

his doesn't shoot any better than my old $89.00 SKS, or any worse than my new $750.00 VZ-58...
 
Good Rifle

I bought a 7.62x39 Saiga a few months ago and it has been great. Nice value for what is basically an AK.

It will NOT accept standard AK mags without slight modifications. Here is a website for a guy who does all kinds of neat stuff with Saigas.

http://www.dinzagarms.com/

That price at Bud's looks pretty good.
 
I own a saiga 7.62x39 and it is a very rugged, well made AK. It's made in the russian factory that has always made russian AK's and still does.

Think of it this way, the saiga is the russian equivalent of the Colt AR-15. A civilian version of the military rifle made by the same company that makes the military rifles....only in semi auto.
 
I just got a Saiga in 7.62x39mm. I've had it about a week now with no problems to report. I love it. It shoots pretty well, it's all brand new parts, the price is amazing for what you're getting, the 7.62x39mm round is fun and cheap to shoot, you can take game with it, my has a 16" barrel and there's a neat fireball that puffs out of it, stupid simple to disassemble and clean, looks pretty cool to begin with and has the potential to be exactly how you want it to be. Some observations:

The buttstock looks cheap and kinda ugly, but that's okay since it's just a buttstock and that's just my opinion.

It will not accept standard AK mags because the Saiga has no bullet guide. You will either have to either: A) Alter the mags, B) Alter the rifle or C) Both.

Many people like to convert the Saiga to a standard AK configuration. This involves moving the fire control group (trigger, hammer, etc...) forward and installing a pistol grip. Many of the newer model Saigas have the holes cut in the receiver already which saves some trouble. I haven't done it, but my Saiga seems to have the proper areas cut for a forward trigger and a pistol grip so I am thinking I will be converting within a month or so. This is pretty popular, so much so that there are people like Dinzagarms whose business it is to modify Saiga rifles and shotguns. I will probably be ordering many of my parts from Dinzagarms because he sends them out with necessary extras such as drill bits and allen wrenches, and of course his parts are made especially for Saigas and are US made (this is important because of 922r considerations).

Go to the forums at Saiga-12 and poke around. It can be alot of information to go through, but they are very, very helpful. They'll answer all your questions and keep you legal if you choose to convert it.

Milsurps are milsurps. Saigas are brand new AKs. Our friend Kalashnakov still works for the factory I do believe, and the Saigas are actually not so much AK-47s as they have benefited from the advances made ont he AK-100 series so it's actually kind of a AK-100.

I love mine. I got mine at $299.99 + adult signature fee + shipping + transfer fee from my ffl = about $350. That was from Centerfire Systems. Smooth transaction with them, my experience.
 
Coomba about summed it up. Browse around on the Saiga-12 forums and check out the various conversions that they've done.

I converted mine recently, lots of fun and I have a NEW AK that I can say I 'built'.

Understand something though. In order for you to use the regular AK magazines, 4 parts on the rifle have to be replaced with US made parts. It's called 922 compliance. I've never heard of anyone getting nailed for it, but it's a felony if you do IIRC.

And that's if you're even allowed to use 'hicap' mags. Some states don't let you.

Oh, and here's the factory website for more reading. They make lots of stuff, so click on 'weapons'.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/
 
Saigas also have a nice side rail that you can install a scope mount. It makes a solid set up for scopes or red dots. Mark
 
Understand something though. In order for you to use the regular AK magazines, 4 parts on the rifle have to be replaced with US made parts. It's called 922 compliance. I've never heard of anyone getting nailed for it, but it's a felony if you do IIRC.
Click to expand...

While many share that opinion, I've yet to see any evidence that it's illegal to convert it to AK mags (or is use Surefire Hi-Cap Saiga Mags) unless you add another "assault weapon" feature (like pistol grip, folding stock, bayonet lug, etc.) 922r only applies to modifications that, if present from the factory, would prohibit it from importation under 925d(3). Detatchable mags are specifically exempted from the banned features under 925d(3) and neither it nor 922r makes any mention of magazine capacity. It would have been illegal under 922v, but that was the Klinton Krime Bill that's now expired (at least for now).
 
Thanks!

I appreciate the input....please keep it coming. This has been an education for me so far....Question? - does anyone make high cap mags for the Saiga rifle proper so that a 'conversion' is not necessary.....if so, why convert it?
 
Stop Right There!

Before you visit Classic Arms, Centerfire Systems, and all other sites that sell Saigas pictured with hicap mags and pistol grips that say they are compliant and able to use standard AK mags, ask yourself this: is it worth the hassle if they did a crap job?

Again, on the Saiga forums, there is a poster there who bought an already converted Saiga 7.62, meaning it had a bullet guide installed in the rifle to feed from AK mags and a pistol grip installed, at the range something fell out of his Saiga. It was the bullet guide. Whoever he got his from glued the damn bullet guide in. He had another Saiga he bought a while ago already converted. He got to poking around in that one and wouldn't you know it the bullet guide was stuck on with glue.

I wouldn't bother. Last thing you need is for your big black AK to fall apart in your arms.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=28270
My mistake, his previous converted rifle didn't have a glued in bullet guide, it was sort of hammer riveted in there. That's the link to the thread, with PICTURES!
 
done!

I ordered the Saiga 7.62x39 rifle this morning....I will have something to play with and can determine from there what I want to do with it in terms of conversion or not....I would like to have an extra mag or two thought (it only comes with one 10 round mag).....where is the best source for SAIGA mags?
Thanks!!!
 
Saiga Mags

I recently bought 4 Master Molder 30 round magazines from CDNN. These are polymer magazines made of zytel (nylon??). They were about ~$13 and effectively have a bullet guide built in. You will have to either modify the magazines or the rifle mag catch to get them to lock in right. I was lazy and just dremmeled down the plastic on the magazines. But they feed great with no problems. Also these are US made parts

I think Surefire makes magazines that will work with no bullet guide but they are ~$40. Kind of pricey.

The whole 922 thing is something else to keep in mind but I hope that helps with your magazine question.
 
I don't want to repeat myself at length but check out other threads here and at the Saiga Forum.

Conversion is easy*. If you have some mechanical knowledge (i.e. you've drilled a hole before) you can do it and do it well. The trigger and ergonomics get better and you can buy as many $10 commie mags as you heart desires and not worry about possible legal reprocussions.






*Drilling through super hard commie steel is not really "easy". It takes a while but is still not an operation that requires much skill.
 
Yea!

What "Willie D" said.
It is hard to drill thru. I grind thru it instead.
I get more control compared to the bit grabbing and jumping wherever it wants.
Grind that rivet head off and center-punch the ox-tail thru the other side.


BTW...
Am I the only guy converting Saiga's that leaves the bottom plate/doubler on?
I grind/file a square hole for the new trigger right thru the plate he removes entirely in his instructions.
I figure, if the doubler adds strength and support, why remove it?
They must've added the doubler for strength, since there is a large slit in both it and the reciever, for the factory trigger.


Here is some links... if you don't already have them...
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm#WARNING!
http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Clips-Magazines/Saiga+Magazines?SID=72d44dccfc55982499a1d6c6af1
http://www.jocoemprise.com/rifles/saigamagazine/saiga762magazine.html
 
I am one of those that actually likes the Saiga the way it is. I have no plans to do the conversion. The only thing I did was replace the buttstock with the factory skeleton stock because it is a little shorter..which I needed. 10 round mags snap in and out with ease, I don't fumble with them like I do with 20 and 30 rounders (like I do with my Chinese MAK-90), and they don't protude below the rifle so far which can get cumbersome or not very ergonomic for me. Very smooth shooter as is, much more accurate than I expected. While I fully understand why others want to/if not down right feel "compelled" to do the conversion...I am one of those that is very happy with the Saiga as is (fits into my all around general purpose non-assuming rifle that still has teeth mindset..which maybe only makes sense to me).

Mags available at www.saigastock.com .. good people (I have no affiliation of any kind).

Do agree in theory that the magazine capacity should no longer be an issue as someone has already posted. But I don't want to be the test case and would simply replace one counted part (such as the forearm with a US made one) and use US made magazines (counts as 3 parts) to play it safe if I was going to snap in a plus 10 rounder designed to work without conversion in the Saiga.
 
It is hard to drill thru
Click to expand...

Huh? Mine wasn't hard, and the bullet guide took all of 10 minutes to install. Maybe you guys are using the wrong drill bit?

Hey, instead of getting those silly Master Molder mags for $14, just go ahead and do the bullet guide and a couple other compliance parts so you can use regular AK mags. I like the Hungarian 20rd mags...not too long, still holds plenty. They even make 5 and 10rd mags.

Dinzag puts together a great little bullet guide kit. Drill bit punched through the steel in about 10 seconds, and the tap worked great. Just GO SLOW...very slow. Cut threads 1/8 turn, back off a whole turn. Repeat.

http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/x39rtk.html
 
The metal in the trunion is soft and a breeze to drill through. The trigger guard spot weld took me 2 hours and 3 bits to get through. :mad:
 
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