Safety Question...Distance....

S

SolomonMan

New member
All,
Not posted in quite a while....

I have a question on Distance and Safety...maybe its more of how far will a bullet travel.

But first before I ask my question I want to make sure everyone understands my position. I am not very experienced gun owner and I am currently schedule to take the CCW in my state and NRA Safety course offered at the local gun shop over the winter months. I have taken hunter safety and have been to the range countless times with friends family etc. This endeavor (gun range) will not begin till spring as a slew of other items are taking priority now.

Anyways, My Wife and I recently bought a home out in the Sticks....The land is flat and no trees...open field everywhere.

I am looking at putting some landscaping (back drop) in for a small back yard gun range nothing like a high power range but something I can shout my collection of guns.

Currently I have 38 S&W hangun, a few .22 long rifles, a 12 gauge Winchester, and a 20 Gauge Mossberg (both slug and shotgun barrel). I am looking at getting a small .22 handgun for target shooting.

Some I have talked to say that its not necessary based on my distance from neighbors/building etc.

We are on 3 acres and based on where your at in the yard distance can very another 600 ft from my measurements for next few sentences. If you look out my back door the closest neighbor is 1200ft to the far left which honestly would not be a way to shoot as my barn would get involved. The next closest is to the far right and its just a pole barn no inhabitants and its 2000 feet away. This is not a ideal location for the range as my pond and pasture (animals) would be in the way. So this leaves straight back from the house. The distance to the start of the yard of these neighbors is 4600 feet and two others that are 5000 ft.

I commonly here shots in my area which I am guessing is for dispatching of animals for the freezer.

So my question is what is a safe distance?

Is there any way I can figure based on bullet/firearm maximum travel...A Book or mathematical formula?

Thanks
Chris
 
Onward Allusion/All,
I kinda figured that as a minimum....

What would be a good Berm setup...(height and material) reason I am asking is in about 2 weeks I am having 20 tons of stone dropped for some future concrete work and the wife is pushing for some landscaping and raised Garden beds for the spring...so maybe I can just do this all at once type of thing.

I have seen a couple berm setups on my commute to work (50 miles) in our area.

The local gun club I have been more than few times has berms and their neighbors are about the same distance at least according to google maps....they do have a few trees though.

Thanks
Chris
 
Gotta build a berm. 3 acres is way too small to not have a berm/backstop. I just got 22 acres and still plan on getting a berm built. My closet neighbor is like 1 mile away . . .
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Yes. The "safest distance" is into a berm. There is no justification for allowing your bullets to travel into/across a neighbor's land.
 
Berm

All,
I did a quick search online and I see Berms are made of all Kinds of Materials...I kinda assumed Sand/Soil is the only choices...No Rocks seemed to be a standard.

I have seen types of Berms ranging from double stacked Hay Bales (Large Round Ones) to Sand Piles...To Stacked telephone poles.

Now we have cattle and critters and Round bales are not out of the ordinary...So anyone had experience with Hay Bales?

Thanks
Chris
 
Hay bales are one of the worst choices for firearms, they are good for arrows. I know of bullets actually catching the round bale on fire, it took about 3 hours before flames burst out. The guns you listed a double cross tie wall with the center filled with dirt should do you nicely. A solar electric fence will protect the cattle from wondering to close when they have gotten used to the sound of gunfire.
 
I have a friend out in the country where because of the slope of the ground the back of his house has a deck that's about 12 feet off the ground. I keep telling him it would be a great platform for shooting, go out about 70 yards and you'd still be shooting into the ground, darn near a perfect backstop as far as I'm concerned. There's a farm field behind him. I'd still like a bern though just in case of a ricochet. I'm thinking patio furniture with sun shade umbrella. At his place it would be walk out of the kitchen thru the patio doors and there you'd be.

He's unimpressed by my logic.
 
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The best bullet stop is metal, An AR500 plate a half inch thick will stop most bullets and do it safely if it is angled with the top toward you. You can collect the lead because it mostly splatters down to the bottom of the plate. This steel is very expensive so not likely to happen on a budget. You need 3 full sheets to make a bullet stop as big as a berm.
The next best bullet stop is an 8 foot high berm of sand and dirt with about a 30% clay mixed in. The bullets will disappear into the berm but over time the berm will collapse so you need to maintain it. Lead removal is a problem as the dirt will collect the small lead particles but if you are the only one shooting it won't be a big deal. Don't use tires - bullets can bounce off them just like rocks. You can use any dirt for a berm just make sure it is high and wide enough to catch your bullets.
A 22 long rifle bullet will travel 2.5 to 3 miles if fired at 43 degree angle and rifle bullets can travel over five miles. Bird shot from a shotgun only travels about 150 to 200 yards but buck shot and slugs go a lot farther. Typical berms are 8 to 12 feet high so you are going to need a loader of some kind to build and maintain it.
Good luch and have fun shooting at your new range.
 
A mile is 5280 feet, I still recall on the little 50 round boxes of Winchester wildcat 22 it said "dangerous to 1.5 miles" thats enough for me to build a berm. Dirt is a great berm material, as stated above, a steel plate in front of that is even better. If the land permits you could even use and old tractor, dig a hole down and stack the dirt up behind it, this would get your target even lower which is what you want. No richoces are acceptable.
 
A berm won't help if the shooter has the muzzle pointed roughly 45 degrees above said berm. It's not the backstop that matters anyway. It's what's behind the backstop out to several miles depending on the cartridge being fired. CF 1,000 yard rifle/MG ranges have a fall zone that about 6 miles deep. About 6 klicks(~ 3 miles) behind shorter ranges.
Shotguns with bird shot aren't as big a deal. Shot doesn't go far, but it depends on the size of the shot. Buckshot can travel close to 800 yards. Number 4 shot can go nearly 300 yards.
"...but over time the berm will..." Be filled with spent bullets and they'll need to be dug out. Then you run into disposing of lead contaminated dirt.
"...an 8 foot high berm..." Isn't high enough. That's about a foot higher than the average interior doorway. Even 12 is too low. The PDF below says 26 feet minimum for a 100 yard range.
Read this. No idea why the Dept. of Energy makes the rules.
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/05/f1/Range_Design_Criteria.pdf
 
Look at the suggested heights from the NRA. The local range meets the NRA suggestions and the County agrees. If we had a 1000 yard range we would have to have a 20 foot berm but at 600 we only need a 12 foot berm. The closer you are to the berm the less height is required because it is calculated on the angle of extreme deviations.
 
SolomonMan said:
All,


We are on 3 acres and based on where your at in the yard distance can very another 600 ft from my measurements for next few sentences. If you look out my back door the closest neighbor is 1200ft to the far left which honestly would not be a way to shoot as my barn would get involved. The next closest is to the far right and its just a pole barn no inhabitants and its 2000 feet away. This is not a ideal location for the range as my pond and pasture (animals) would be in the way. So this leaves straight back from the house. The distance to the start of the yard of these neighbors is 4600 feet and two others that are 5000 ft.

I commonly here shots in my area which I am guessing is for dispatching of

So my question is what is a safe distance?


Thanks
Chris
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IMHO, with only three acres, the amount of monies to make it safe(legitimately and to the nearest neighbor) makes it impractical. Look at what is available for gun clubs in the area. Odds are that is going to be a better option in the long run. Shooting a skunk or possum in your back yard occasionally is much different than shooting regularly at a dedicated range. Many sates have regs about how close you can shoot to another's residence without permission. Just being "out in the sticks" does not always make it right.
 
Oh, but the joys of shooting on your own land on your own range!

Today I'm going to shoot FAST to see if my gun can handle THAT.
Anybody have a problem with that?

Today I'm going to shoot really slow and mess with all the settings on my gun.
Anybody have a problem with that?

I'm going to have TOOLS next to my gun on the shooting bench and I'm going to ADJUST stuff on my gun while I'm shooting.
Anybody have a problem with that?

I'm going to go get a sandwich and coffee and think about my shooting and I'm going to leave all my stuff out while I do that. So it's just the same when I return.
Anybody have a problem with that?

etc. etc. etc.
 
Oh, but the joys of shooting on your own land on your own range!....
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But only if it can be done legally and safely.

Remember that if someone sets up a range on his land and fires his guns on his land, he can have civil liability for any damage caused by bullets that leave his land. Here's an article about a $175,000.00 judgment awarded against a range for bullets leaving the property, and that's without having caused physical injury, just property damage. If a stray bullet actually hurts someone, the property owner can expect to be on the hook for some serious liability and legal fees.

There's a basic legal principle of very broad application. It is usually thought to derive from the 1868 ruling by the British House of Lords (which is the British equivalent of our SCOTUS) in the case of Rylands v. Fletcher (BAILII Citation Number: [1868] UKHL 1):
... The same result is arrived at on the principles referred to by Mr. Justice Blackburn in his judgment, in the Court of Exchequer Chamber, where he states the opinion of that Court as to the law in these words: "We think that the true rule of law is, that the person who, for his own purposes, brings on his land and collects and keeps there anything likely to do mischief if it escapes, must keep it in at his peril; and if he does not do so, is primâ facie answerable for all the damage which is the natural consequence of its escape. ..."...
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In other words, in general if you engage in potentially dangerous activities (such as shooting guns) on your property which could harm your neighbors, you are responsible if those activities do harm your neighbors. Often liability is what's called strict liability. In other words one can be liable for the harm even in the absence of negligence.

And even if liability needed to be based on negligence, the sources I linked to in post 12 could be used by a plaintiff's lawyer to argue what the standard of care for setting up a shooting range is.
 
Very interesting discussion. Could also answer my question as to why there are so few public ranges available now in SE Wisconsin. Population density.
 
Can the OP fire his guns on only 3 acres? Where I live, county ordinances require a minimum of 10; he might also want to talk to his neighbors about the noise he will be generating. Being proactive and upfront and coming to any agreement goes a long way to avoid issues down the road.
 
I would thing the op could build a back stop on a city lot. Bad thing being no one want's you shooting in the city! I have 10+ acre's on the edge of town and could put in a backstop to shoot but the city resident's, all 30 something of them, would have a cow! Can't imagine Having less land to do it and then it seem's it would be best outside a city limit, urban growth boundary or any kind of urban area. But for myself, a backstop would be best made out of a good size berm. My thinking is a clean dirt berm. Reason being I cast most my handgun bullet's and bullet's for my 308 and a dirt berm allow's me to recover and recast bullet's. Now I don' have that and shoot at a gravel pit. Gravel pretty much tears the bullet's apart and finding them pose's a real problem.
 
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