Safes,Trigger locks, or both?

M

Miss Demeanors

New member
I really don't know anything about gun safes or trigger locks and am hoping to get some information here. Which is best? Which would letME have easy and quick access but would not allow my daughter access? How about price ranges too? Brands? Also, if you store a gun in a safe (with small kids in the home) do you keep the gun loaded or not? What else do you keep in that safe (flashlight,ammo, ect)?

I think I enjoy having my mind boggled LOL :)

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Sandys' Homepage
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
Miss D, When my kids were small I used to keep a loaded S&W 38 in one of my dresser drawers. I had a Master trigger lock on that.
I kept the key hidden and handy. Both my wife and of course myself only knew where it was. I practiced getting it unlocked in the dark by feel only. At the time all my other guns were locked in a standard glass front gun cabnet which my wife had given me one year for Christmas. Since both my kids were brought up around guns and were taught proper about them I never had a problem.
Back then the trigger lock which is now given with a gun purchase cost me about $7.00
the gun cabnet about $200.
Since times have changed and my collection has grown I have finaly purchased a gun safe.
That cost me about $2600. Weighs about 1000lb. and is fireproof for about 2hrs.
Since my kids are just about grown and ready to leave the nest, I still keep a home defense gun stashed in one place and the mags stashed someplace else. Yes if one of them wants it they will have to rip a room apart to find them .I no longer use the trigger lock. The other guns I own are now all locked in the safe. I do keep that old .38 loaded inside in case I am forced to open. I also do have a mag light in there that I also use as a bore light. We keep other things of importance and value inside the safe. In my opinion the safe purchase was the best thing I ever did. But in the days before I always did what I thought was safe and what I could afford at the time.
With young kids around the trigger lock served its purpose as did the inexpensive gun cabnet. The cabnet was not a safe but it kept the kids out.
I hope this helps :)

Happy Shooting :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
I used to use a safe where the gun was loaded. The most important thing to do is to get the curiousity about guns out of your daughter's head. At this present time I don't own any firearms, but I've always wanted to get a Fort Knox safe or other well built safe like, Browning, Winchester, Liberty Security, etc. There's this one safe called Gun Vault where you can open it up with a key or press these four buttons in a code that has to be in a certain sequence or it won't open. Go to http://www.uspsa.org/ scroll down to Vendors, click, and then scroll down to Safe Manufacturers.

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"Gun Control Only Protects Those in Power"
 
I have a push-button safe with two pistols in it. Last night I had to go to it and check if my hand still got the combination right...my mind did not consiously rememebr the simple four-press combo. Oops!
 
I personally think that trigger locks only solve half the problem -- preventing an unauthorized person from being able to fire your gun but it will not prevent them from being stolen.

I don't know what your particular situation is or how many guns you wish to secure but this is what I do (as I have a little one who gets into everything -- give her a room full of toys and she'll want to play with the remote or the telephone):<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> I have a mid-size safe which weighs about 400 pounds and is bolted (from the inside) to a cement foundation. It's made out of hardened [sic] steel (I'm not sure if that is the correct term but it's the type of steel that you would need special tools to break into -- a regular drill or saw won't even make a dent in it) and it's about 4 feet tall by 2 feet wide and 18 inches deep. It's large enough to hold my guns plus a couple of flashlights, ammo, important papers and other valuables. At the same time, it is small enough that it doesn't take up a lot of space and I'm even able to keep it hidden from plain sight with other household items. If somebody breaks in and finds it, they're not going to be able to carry it away unless they blast the foundation apart and they won't be able to break into it unless they're an expert safe cracker. Obviously, my little one will not be able to get into it as well. I purchased it from a local dealer and I paid a little over $1,000 (with tax & installation). I don't know if that was a good price or not.

<LI> I also keep a couple of handguns in a security boxes made by V-Line which I have bolted to the floor and to a heavy piece of furniture. While it does not offer the same level of secirity as the safe, I feel that it is still better than a trigger lock because it still secures the weapon from being stolen. Obviously, with some effort, they could unbolt the box or take the heavy piece of furniture that the other is bolted to with them but I'm working on the assumption that they will want to be in and out of the house as soon as possible and will concentrate on other items that they can move more quickly such as the TV, VCR, camcorder, computer, etc. Additionally, I find it highly unlikely that they will be able to open the security box as it has 6561 different possible combinations that you can reset and I suspect that they will not want to spend the time trying a majority of them. Additionally, I feel that it will also prevent my little one from getting her hands on the guns as well since not only are the security boxes hidden, but it is also unlikely that she'll get the combination open -- I feel that there would be a higher chance of her finding a gun and the key to the trigger lock than her finding the security boxes and figuring out the combination. I keep my home defense gun in one security box and my everyday CCW in another security box. I did some experimentation and found that I could get the gun out of the security box faster than I could get a trigger lock off. Plus, with a trigger lock, you have to first get the key and then go for the gun while with the security box, you go directly for the gun. As I've mentioned, I keep my home defense gun in the security box so that I'll have quick and ready access to it in case the need arises and I also keep my everyday CCW in other box so that I don't have to open the safe every day. I usually open the safe about once a month when I take out a gun, or two, to go shooting at the range. At the same time I throw in some desiccant (those little pouches when prevents moisture from building up and thereby causing rust) bags and remove the old ones.</UL>
To answer your final question, the two guns in the security boxes are loaded since I may need to use them in a moments notice (by the way, I also keep a loaded, spare magazine for each gun in the security boxes as well). The pistols in the safe have a magazine inserted and a spare fully loaded magazine right next to each gun but no bullet in the chamber. The revolvers are not loaded but they too have two loaded speed loaders next to each gun.

This may not work for everybody but I found that it is a good system for me based on my situation. I hope that this has been of some help to you. Regards.
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[This message has been edited by FUD (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
Hi Miss D.--

FWIW, my own preference is for a small gun safe made expressly for quick access by an adult with a key or combination. Maybe I'm being overcautious, but I personally distrust installing a mechanism on a mechanism, like adding a trigger lock to a handgun. I guess putting anything inside a trigger guard except my finger as a last resort makes me a little nervous. So, you might have a look at the products of this company, which are simple, strong, and reasonably priced:

http://www.handgunsafe.com/index.htm

While safes and locks are probably a good idea nowadays, our culture being what it has sadly become, the most important thing is, of course, still the same as always: to educate kids in the risks and responsibilities of firearms. Safes and locks are not proof against trouble--IMHO, they are only a back-up to instruction and learning.

HTH.
 
About 1000-1500 should get a good fireproof gun safe capable of holding both pistols and rifles. My preference is a combo safe with a day lock. That is you can dial in the combo and lock it with a key for quick access at night. Then lock it with the combo when you leave.
 
The issue of "playing" with real guns was never a problem for me as a kid, or for me as a father. Guns were "just around" and taken for granted. For play there were cap pistols; for early-age plinking there were BB guns.

As far as security against small children, the cheapest is the padlock behind the trigger, and adult control of the keys. But the most important thing is building a routine. You come home from work, you might take the handgun from its secure location and make it convenient to your evening routine. After the kids are in bed, you might then remove the lock. The appropriate routine is up to you. Comes morning, you reverse the process...Whatever.

As a function of what one can afford, cheap safes are available from KMart for around $99. They ain't great, but they're better than under the mattress. They hold a half-dozen long guns, and several pistols or other valuables. They can be lag-bolted to wall studs. They generally protect only against the smash-and-run amateurs, but that's 90+% of burglaries.

Another cheap-but-useful idea for the owner of only one handgun is to use two 3/8" screw-eyes, each screwed into a stud inside a closet wall. Use a short length of bicycle chain or cable and lock through both screw-eyes and the frame of a revolver or the magazine well of a semi-auto. This way, the screweyes cannot be unscrewed and the gun stolen.

FWIW, Art
 
I agree with FUD but have a different approach. Since I own no long guns, I can keep all my handguns in a standard office safe installed in my closet. It opens with a keypad, weighs 200 lbs., is fireproof for two hours, is also great for important documents (even my wife likes it) and cost only a little over two hundred dollars.

Under my bed I keep a loaded pistol and an extra magazine in a pushbutton-type lock-box. The flashlight and cordless phone are on the bedstand.
 
I have a 5-600# safe that I use to store my guns. My primary is always on me and within my control. When I go to bed it goes to the nightstand. Wherever I go it goes. No need for locks, unloading..., and always ready for the unexpected. When I have kids I may use my Pelican Box when I'm in the shower to make sure no accidents happen. Aside from that I have every intention to allow my kids to handle and "play" with all the guns around to remove the I'm curious thing. I never wanted to play with my dad's guns when he wasn't around, nor did he play with my G-father's guns. Safes are OK, but EDUCATION is the only way to minimize accidents.
 
I have a GunVault ($149) which holds a loaded H&K .45 and spare mag in the bedroom, a Homsafe steel locker bolted to the wall in my office closet, which holds everything else ('cept what I'm wearing that day), one of which is loaded. Ammo is elsewhere in military ammo cans. We have no kids, but neices and neighborhood kids visit regularly, and wife (non-shooter) worries that a loose gun might be turned against her, so we keep everything secure. I can get at the bedroom gun in <10 secs., the other stuff in <30 secs, depending on starting point. Good enuff for me. M2

PS - IMHO, trigger locks are better than nothing against curious kids with unloaded guns, but basically useless for real security, and completely inappropriate for home defense weapons.

[This message has been edited by Mike in VA (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
I've said it before and I still believe that the answer lies not in the "push button" gun box that screams I'VE GOT A GUN IN HERE! Sure it will stop kids (hopefully) but anyone in your house when your NOT there to retrieve the gun will definitely make it a point to take that box. I have to admit that's just what happened to me. I gave a lot of thought to the problem and decided that hidden storage was the answer. I looked at several options and ordered a table from http://www.furniturewithasecret.com as soon as it arrived I ordered another. If you use a push button type safe they can be relatively easily opened with a screwdriver. What you can't FIND, you can't steal OR play with.
 
Trigger locks are a bust in my opinion. A trigger lock can be defeated by an industrious child. Not to mention it tends to make adults less vigilant about keeping the guns out of little hands.
Remember child proof caps on medicine, after their introduction the incidence of children getting into their parents drugs actually rose as people became less vigilant about keeping them away from the kids.

I keep all my guns except the home defense type in a safe. My defense gun I keep up and unloaded ( the clip is with the gun not in it) . A far as my son goes at 3 he is very smart and very persistent he can turn a computer on by himself and start his favorite game by making the right series of a half dozen mouse clicks. So any quick open safe I would get he would probably be able to open sooner or later. So far I keep the gun up unloaded and use automatics that he doesn’t have the strength to operate the slide on should he get hold of it, and remain very vigilant on where he is and what he is doing. (That’s the tough part as he is not the type to get into things he is not supposed to) but he has a serious love of water and If I can keep him from playing in the stool water, playing with a gun shouldn’t be that much harder(he doesnt care for toy guns much less the real ones, take him to a toy store and its Balls, Trains trucks or tractors not toy guns). To be blunt, in my case I am more afraid of what will happen when he discovers the pond behind the house(its in the field behind the back yard) than a gun in the house. He wont care about the gun but there is water in the pond and he will be rabid over that. I grew up in a house where there were guns around and not locked in a safe and they were kept up hidden till I knew better and we knew the belt was the penality for not keeping away from them. My father used to preach every gun in the house is loaded and if I catch you playing with one Ill skin you. They weren't but we knew better than to test his threats. But since my father always took us shooting it was never a big deal, we left them alone.

[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
A safe! End of story. Because other things can be kept there, too. Your jewelry, camera, guns, all the stuff that burglars love will fit in a gun safe.

Believe me on this one. I am a pawnbroker and more than guns get stolen.
 
Since my primary concern is to prevent theft,
I like safes as they buy more time against burglars. For quick access though, I have an electronic keypad operated storage box bolted into the wall. This gives me almost instant access to either a rifle, shotgun, or pistol.

The only reason why I have trigger locks is for demonstrative purposes and I won't use one myself.

A decent product which is a good compromise is the Palmer Security gun vault (which they market mostly as a drop box). It's got the simplex lock which is quick access and the body and door are constructed of 3/16" steel. They're big enough to hold a handgun with spare ammo (& flashlight) or two guns alone.
 
Safes are far superior, locks are cheaper. My personal solution when I move into my own place next summer will be a pushbutton like Oleg mentioned for the one pistol I'll keep loaded, and locks for the others. I know, I know, this doesn't stop burglars, but I can't afford the big fancy safe.

My reasoning is that the guns that aren't used for immediate defense can be hidden away and don't need to be accessed quickly, hence less need for more than a trigger lock. And I know the lock can be defeated, but I have faith in my ability to teach my kids not to do so, among other firearm safety rules.
Hey, I just got an idea. As an object lesson, what if you took your child to the range with a .22, loaded it, and put a trigger lock on it (keeping muzzle downrange) then undo the lock partway and fiddle with it till it fires the gun? Actually you could do the same thing with a snap cap if your kid doesn't need the flash as a visual reminder? Sure, your gun will be stored unloaded when the trigger lock is on it, but they don't have to know that for awhile. :)
 
Sure, a safe (a real safe) is the best way to store or protect your valuables... not really bedroom decor or EASY access. End of story. By the way my "push button" safe was lag bolted to a hardwood floor, the BG's just used the same crow bar that thay ripped the back door off the hinges with. I don't think there is any ONE answer just pick the one that works best for you and your budget.

Be safe.
 
Sandy, No matter what you decide on as the best way to secure your firearms and at the same time provide easy reach to them remember that your stated concern is safety, self protection and "in other post" recreation. For recreational guns, you can store some of the ones you don't use very often in my vault. Those would be safe from theft and handling from children but wouldn't do much for self protection and would be a pain for recreation as well.
It is well to teach a child "like in the old days" if you talk back to your mom you are in big trouble, if you talk back to your friends mom you are going to get spanked, if you touch a firearm you are in a real world of hurt but if you ask to inspect my firearm I will gladly stop what I'm doing and help you with your questions.
I know that I over simplify and that the theft problem was not as big an issue then.
Sometimes, I'm almost happy that my wife and I forgot to have children.
Off My Box and good luck in your quest!
Hank

[This message has been edited by HankL (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
Thank you for all the information. I am going to print it out and look through all the links provided. I just don't want to defeat the purpose of having a gun and having it stored somewhere where it will take a long time to get to (Excuse me Mr. Bad Guy can you hang on just 5 min while I go get something? :)) I also don't want my little one or my little niece getting to it. Yes, I will educate her further and defintely take her curiousity away. I just want to get the 'babys room' ;) ready for when it comes home :). Thanks again!

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Sandys' Homepage
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
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