Saakashvili

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WINSTON THE WOLF

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Saakashvili The worlds biggest cry baby. He gambled , he lost. So far he has blamed everybody but himself. now he is blaming the EU and NATO.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/15/sot.georgia.pres.rice.newser.ap

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8bf_1218721868

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d4f_1218758868

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e5a_1218752011

He was warned to not disturb the bear. He gambled , he lost.
I think Saakashvili. Should now learn the American slogan ok now S.T.F.U.

I hope America is smart enough not to go to war over this guy. How did he become president. You would think a president should have some balls. Not a sniveling cry baby like thiis guy. He should man up and accept the blame for getting his ass kicked.

This picture really describes it best.

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Small countries should know better.
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Japan isnt much bigger than California. Germany isnt much bigger than Montana. And for a very long time, the sun never set upon the British Empire.

You would do well to never underestimate small countries.
 
Small countries that can back themselfs up are few and far between. Georgia is not one of them.
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Yeah, things have just never been quite the same in Georgia since that uncivilized savage Sherman took a ride through our lovely state!
 
But really...

I'm surprised Bush didn't confuse the country of Georgia with the state, otherwise it'd be another fun little war wouldn't it?
 
Just remember that Georgia was trying to regain control of an area that was trying to secede from it with Russian help. It was a situation much like the events with Texas, USA, and Mexico in 1848.

My sympathies are with Georgia, and Russia is definately overreacting by invading all of Georgia in response to internal events in a soverign country. If Georgia would have waited until they had a more capable military, Russia would have taken the disputed areas anyhow, but now Russia took those areas and are inflicting terrible losses on Georgia in personel and materiel. Diplomatic pressure would have been the only thing they should have done.

The Georgia (USA) soldiers we just finished training here who just came back from Georgia (Europe) said that the Georgia (Europe) soldiers are mostly illterate draftees who get a 2 week boot camp and then are led by officers and NCOs appointed for political considerations more than professional abilities.

Georgia may cease to exist after the Russians finish ethnic cleansing the areas they want to take over. Putin is a hard core communist/autocratic ideologue who sees military conquest as an excuse and vehicle to restore state control over Russia's citizens, resources, and outlying territories.
 
Not sure that's an appropriate analogy, Alleykat. How about this one. The CSA says it's going to secede from the USA in 1861. Instead of the Civil War taking place and lasting from 1861-1865, the USA just says "ok", go ahead and secede.

Ossetia was part of Georgia. Shouldn't Georgia be allowed to make some attempt to keep it from seceding?? The USSR only broke up about 15 years ago. If the Ossetians didn't want to be a part of Georgia, why didn't they just move to Russia or do something then???
 
Georgia started it. Now they are crying to the whole world that they are the victims. If you mess with the bull you get the horns. In this case it is a BIG BEAR!!!:eek:

My sympathies are with the people that Georgia attacked.
 
Georgia started it. Now they are crying to the whole world that they are the victims. If you mess with the bull you get the horns. In this case it is a BIG BEAR!!!
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Typical knee-jerk, reflex comment...

How about going a bit further back in history before you start the blame game? Try cracking open a book and reading up on that region's, Georgia's in particular, storied history.
 
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Creature, I make a big distinction between the USSR (which the US, UK and Germany & several international banking houses created, anyway) and modern Russia.

The Ossetes are of Persian descent I've read and I'm researching this now.

I study the Caucasus religiously and have been doing so since my Literature teacher would manage to mention once a week "the Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Gauls, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Franks, Kipchaks, Pechenegs..." We'd all roll our eyes and mock her behind her back. But for some reason, maybe because I wished to mimic her better, I could repeat the names. Later in time I began to research them and BOY was I amazed. Europeans have a most unique history (that few give a damn about) and I study the Caucasus religiously since graduating from undegrad (nearly 20 years).

And I'm NOT Caucasian.

P.S.

Try reading Brzezinski's The Grand Chessboard which can be downloaded here for free: http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119973.pdf It's not about the ethnic tribes, but like Mackinder it's about the US policy of controlling Eurasia to control the oil and natural gas reserves and subsequent pipelines which will require the deconstruction of Russia and China. GREAT read.
 
So, tell me how does modern Russia's invasion not differ from the Soviet Bolshevik invasion back in 1921? It doesn't. Russia is back and it is trying to gather back all it's lost power since the collapse of the Soviet Empire. This current invasion has as much to do with ethnicity as the 1921 takeover did. It has everything to do with gas.
 
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Typical knee-jerk, reflex comment...

How about going a bit further back in history before you start the blame game? Try cracking open a book and reading up on that region's, Georgia's in particular, storied history.
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The blame game? Is it really that hard for you to see who started this? Georgia tried to control a breakaway region by force. Well they lost and understimated the responce from Russia. Now they are crying to the world poor me.

I don't care about the history. History will not get us into WWIII now. The actions of stupid people will.
 
Your frame of reference is slightly askew. And you really dont have a full understanding of the political and historical precedence that is the crux of this whole crisis, which goes back decades and perhaps even centuries. Georgia is a pawn and Russia is performing another "Crazy Ivan", firing up it's newly rejuvenated war machine, looking to see if NATO and the US is watching...and to see if we have the stomach to flood our torpedo tubes. History does tend to repeat itself.
 
Russia has a security agreement with Ukraine, Georgia, Belrus ,and Moldova...and still pays the pensions of many of the people living in these countries as well as providing energy for these countries ie. tiny Moldova receives over $800 million in energy per year from Russia. Russia subsidizes the economy of these countries...and tends to stay out of their business. Russia has allowed these nations independence, and maintains this allowed independence via a loose security agreement. One could even consider the Russian Federation as a kind of Union transformed into a kind of Confederacy.


The Russians have never liked occupying Eastern Europe; it's a drain on Russia's economy - but Russia also doesn't like the fact that every time it's let Eastern Europe to the whims of Western/Central Europe...bad things have happened. Russia didn't like being invaded by Napolean, and twice<in just the 20th century> by Germany. Russia has some legitimate concerns - and seeing the U.S. pushing for missle sites in Georgia and Poland...just doesn't rub Russia the right way.


Georgia was a pain in Tsarist times. Stalin - a Georgian - moved Russians into Ossetia and put them under the domination of Georgia. The ethnic Russians there have been mistreated - and Russia has been careful to not abandon these folks to Georgia. Russia allowed Georgia independence, but did not do so unconditionally. Russia expects Georgia to abide by its agreements and to treat Ossetia decently.


Part of the problem is that Russia's economy has done rather well in the last decade, but Georgia's economy has at best stagnated. Georgia wants U.S. aid, and Georgia's attack against Ossetia can be viewd as a kind of dysfunctional cry for U.S. aid - egged on by covert U.S. forces who want to put a NATO ring around Russia and do anything to disrupt/harm/weaken Russia. Looks like Russia just called that bluff!


The Bush Govt. needs this conflict to deflect attention from its own quagmire in Iraq. It's funny how the U.S. is now thumping its chest and complaining about Russia invading and occupying a country...while it's own military is occupying two countries in two wars. It's rather weird how the U.S. is saying it wants missles in Poland on Russia's border to defend Europe against an 'Iranian missle attack.' The U.S. position is just dishonest and rife with covert actions. The Georgian position is that while it attacked Ossetia, it did so as a 'friend' of the U.S.A. Russia's position is that it's not going to tolerate such crap.


Not even resurrecting the Cold War can save the Bush administration. It's been totally discredited. Putin has a fine legacy and will continue to be a world statesman. Bush has a reservation at the golf course...and the dustbin of history.
 
And with .300H&H's post, we have firmly and irrevocably crossed over the line into the territory that is already being discussed, here.

Closed for becoming a duplicate thread.
 
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