SAA can safely load all 6 rounds
- Thread starter D.A.Clark
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Any that have a transfer bar. I know Berettas do.
My Uberti has a quarter cock notch that activities a wedge between the hammer and the frame, but if you go to use it make sure to push the hammer forward to fully engage it. If you do not push it forward it is still possible to pull the trigger and drop the hammer. The Uberti also has two positions on the cylinder pin; one is a firing position and the other prevents the hammer from hitting a primer.
Most people grind the extra length off since it's a PITA getting it in the right groove, especially with an old style frame where you have a set screw to hold the pin in.
I know I'm going against "universal wisdom" but I always load six, always have. It takes a hammer fall of almost half cock to set off a primer. With the traditional style holsters I use snagging the hammer on anything is pretty much an impossibility as is dropping it out of the holster with the hammer thong tight. I'm not recommending anybody else do this. I'm just saying I do it. Besides back in the old days they didn't load five. Maybe a few did but most loaded six. There were a few Rugers in the 50's that went off and caused some law suits is where the load five came from.
Hawg,
While I don't agree with you, I'll respect your decision to carry with all chambers loaded; I hope that you don't carry with the hammer down on a loaded, capped chamber in doing so, but are using the between chamber 'safety' pins or notches.
Be that as it may, however, I feel I must make a comment on the following statement:
Certainly my own decision to carry on empty was not the result of some 1950's lawsuit. I familiarized myself with the design and function of the revolvers and applied what to me are sound safety engineering principles.
That you have reached a different conclusion than me isn't the issue here. My concern is that you misunderstand the reasons for carrying on empty; it's not because of some lawsuit, but rather rational thought based on the physical reality of the design. That doesn't mean you;re being irrational or wrong, just that we don't agree on the conclusion. I would hope you can see that.
While I don't agree with you, I'll respect your decision to carry with all chambers loaded; I hope that you don't carry with the hammer down on a loaded, capped chamber in doing so, but are using the between chamber 'safety' pins or notches.
Be that as it may, however, I feel I must make a comment on the following statement:
While there may have been lawsuits as a result of inadvertent discharges in the (19?)50's, I can come up with no logic as to how they resulted in individuals changing their method of carry from fully loaded to one empty chamber. In any case, there were, by your own admission people who carried an empty chamber long before the 1950's; the practice certainly did not start then.
Certainly my own decision to carry on empty was not the result of some 1950's lawsuit. I familiarized myself with the design and function of the revolvers and applied what to me are sound safety engineering principles.
That you have reached a different conclusion than me isn't the issue here. My concern is that you misunderstand the reasons for carrying on empty; it's not because of some lawsuit, but rather rational thought based on the physical reality of the design. That doesn't mean you;re being irrational or wrong, just that we don't agree on the conclusion. I would hope you can see that.
That's when loading five started being touted. Actually I never heard of it till I started reading it in gun rags in the 60's. I let the hammer down between chambers on both C&B's and SAA's as I was taught by real old timers when I was young.
Of course I can and I'm not trying to get anybody to carry six. I always teach new shooters to carry five. Kinda like do as I say not as I do.
Honestly , I guess I do it because I grew up doing it. I was taught that way and it's always worked for me. I've put SAA's and C&B's through some pretty extreme chit in my younger days and never had an AD. I just say it wasn't the norm to carry five back in the day because I've seen quite a few SAA's that were dug up fully loaded. I myself found an original 58 Remington in an old barn fully loaded and capped. If I'm not mistaken Robert E. Lee's 51 Navy was fired 7 years after his death and all six were loaded. I'm sure there were cases of loading five. I think I read somewhere it was Wyatt Earps habit to do so but I don't think it was normal for the day. People are just so much more safety oriented(not that that's a bad thing) and manufacturers are scared of lawsuits these days. Personally I'm glad the Italian manufacturers don't cave and put transfer bars in their guns. To me a SA just isn't right without the firing pin mounted on the hammer. Out of all the revolvers I have, both SA and DA only two don't have hammer mounted firing pins and I inherited both of them. I don't use them much either.Hawg is right on historically.. You really don't believe that the 'old-timers' carried their o/u deringers with one chamber empty, do you.. Myself, if I feel that I will really need 6 rounds, then that's what I load... I suppose that if you happened to drop your revolver from an appreciable height onto a hard surface, it might cook-off a round (I'm talking safety notch here) . If the gun were on full-cock there would be a loaded round under the hammer anyway..
But as Hawg also states: "Do as I say, not as I do
", safety first..
But as Hawg also states: "Do as I say, not as I do
", safety first..Playboypenguin
Moderator
I do not see any real risk in carrying fully loaded with the hammer down in a holster that has a decent retention system. I probably would not do it myself without a transfer bar safety of some type of firing pin block but I would not consider the dangers of carrying without them all that risky since the biggest risk would be the gun falling out and striking the ground hammer down. The next biggest would be clothing pulling back and releasing the hammer, but again, a good holster will deter than rare event from occurring.
perfectly safe to carry ruger's (post 60's) with 6 rounds. no legitimate record of accidental discharge from dropping or striking a ruger with the transfer bar.
THATS the "physical reality" of the design.
I have struck the hammer on my vaquero with an actual hammer, no discharge.
besides, you have to be pretty careless to drop a loaded revolver. seen folks do it while practicing "tricks" with an unloaded gun.....
marcseatac
New member
I'm not going to tell anyone how to treat their loaded guns but for myself I like the empty chamber. I don't trust the gun even in a secure holster with a retention strap.
I noticed one time while I was deer hunting I had my 58 Rem in a secure holster and climbed into my truck and sat back and got comfortable. Then I felt something catch the gun holster, it was the metal clip for the seat belt and it was trying to ignite one of the caps outside the hammer slot. It was almost touching and putting a good bit of pressure on the pistol.
You can't think of everything but some experiences give insight. That was one of them.
Happy shooting.
I noticed one time while I was deer hunting I had my 58 Rem in a secure holster and climbed into my truck and sat back and got comfortable. Then I felt something catch the gun holster, it was the metal clip for the seat belt and it was trying to ignite one of the caps outside the hammer slot. It was almost touching and putting a good bit of pressure on the pistol.
You can't think of everything but some experiences give insight. That was one of them.
Happy shooting.
That's correct. Apologies. I'm not sure I'll ever get used to modern Rugers as 'cowboy action guns' - I have no problem with it, just can't get my head into it yet.
On 'experience':
No sane person intentionally carries or uses a gun in an unsafe manner. There are thoughtless people who don't understand or pay close enough attention, but for the most part we all try to be safe.
The range of options available varies from the ridiculous (never get out of bed in the morning, only to die in an earthquake) to the practical (decide how to handle and carry your gun in a manner that greatly reduces the chances of an inadvertent detonation) - nothing new in that but I thought I'd get it out of the way.
When considering what a 'safe manner' is we tend to rely on experience to think of what could happen. We tell ourselves we've thought of everything and thus feel 'safe'. Unfortunately, or perhaps luckily, we don't have the experience of a catastrophic event to teach us the one event that puts a ball in a leg or hip, so experience is not an adequate teacher.
The only other thing one can do is take a good look at our practices and the design of the equipment, and see what characteristics can be used to enhance safe handling and carry. The 'safety pins/notches' is one good example - using those doesn't guarantee the hammer won't get pulled back far enough to bring a round into battery, but it sure a lot safer than carry the hammer down on a loaded, capped chamber. It just makes sense to use them.
Is there anything else? Yes, putting the hammer down on an empty chamber. It IS safer because the hammer has to move farther and the cylinder has to rotate twice as far to bring the loaded chamber into battery. How much safer? Enough to make giving up that round worth it? What are the chances I'll actually need that round versus inadvertently shooting myself in the leg? Tough questions to answer. Nobody can answer them for you. And so there is no single 'right' answer.
But, at least we're thinking about what we're doing. As we all know, there are people out there using guns that aren't.
I don't care what somebody else uses but I want no part of Ruger SA's. I've had a couple but they just ain't "right".
I'll agree with that.
Not to me.
Putting pressure on a cap won't set it off. You can put all the pressure you possibly can on one and not set it off and yes I've tried. It takes a sharp blow to do it. On my guns it takes a hammer fall from almost half cock with my Remingtons to set off a cap. My Colt has to be on half cock to do it.
W. C. Quantrill
New member
I was hunting in 1970 with an old model Blackhawk (30 carbine). I had already shot it twice, so it was sitting on an empty chamber. It was in a holster also. I was crawling between the wires of a fence, putting the sneak on the next victim when I felt something and I looked down and back in time to see the fence wire thumb back the hammer then let it go. It rotated the cylinder but did not catch the full cock notch.
The bullet entered my right leg just outside of my kneecap, followed the bone down to my ankle bone and then exited out through the side of my boot. The hospital was 60 miles away, and the surgeon told me he removed over 2 pounds of damaged meat out of the side of my leg, and put in 84 stitches to close it, 42 inside and 42 outside.
I sold that gun soon afterwards and bought a .45 New Model with the transfer bar. I made a new holster that has a hammer thong. I hunt with the gun, and load 6, but the hammer is tied down and the trigger guard is closed so that the only way the gun can discharge is for me to release the hammer tie, then pull the gun from the holster. It cannot leave the security of the holster by accident.
This isnt a black powder story, but I thought I would share it with you all as a personal experience.
The bullet entered my right leg just outside of my kneecap, followed the bone down to my ankle bone and then exited out through the side of my boot. The hospital was 60 miles away, and the surgeon told me he removed over 2 pounds of damaged meat out of the side of my leg, and put in 84 stitches to close it, 42 inside and 42 outside.
I sold that gun soon afterwards and bought a .45 New Model with the transfer bar. I made a new holster that has a hammer thong. I hunt with the gun, and load 6, but the hammer is tied down and the trigger guard is closed so that the only way the gun can discharge is for me to release the hammer tie, then pull the gun from the holster. It cannot leave the security of the holster by accident.
This isnt a black powder story, but I thought I would share it with you all as a personal experience.
That's ok, I started this thread as a kind of quasi Ruger thread anyway.
My question is for the folks that feel loading a 6th round is safe enough for them. Do you follow this procedure at the target range? Plinking field? Or just breaking bottles with your buddies? Do you feel this is a safe practice with others around you? No knock intended, I'm just curious if you modify this practice due to external factors and circumstances like an audience or spectators?
My question is for the folks that feel loading a 6th round is safe enough for them. Do you follow this procedure at the target range? Plinking field? Or just breaking bottles with your buddies? Do you feel this is a safe practice with others around you? No knock intended, I'm just curious if you modify this practice due to external factors and circumstances like an audience or spectators?