SA + external safety

U

ump45

New member
Excluding 1911's, what good options are out there for a full size 9mm SA with external safety?

So far I've heard BHP--although with some mixed reports. I'd like to clear up whether or not this is a top quality gun on the same level as SIG or HK.

The only other one I've heard of is an HK USP9, but this one has a decocker IN ADDITION to the external safety, which doesn't quite fit the mold of what I'm looking for.

It would be quite amazing to me if the BHP was really the only good option for what I'm looking for--a true SA pistol with an external safety.
 
The H&K is a DA/SA that can be carried cocked and locked. It is a frame mounted safety that works in the same direction as a 1911. I don't know why the decocker should bother you, as it doesn't interfere with SA use.

How about the Beretta Billenium? It is an all steel Beretta 92 with a frame mounted safety and a single action trigger.
Beretta also has single action target guns based on the Beretta 92.

The CZ-75 SA is another option. Been hearing good things about that.

The only complaint I have about the Browning HiPower is the gritty trigger. Honestly, the only time I notice it is when I fire a light recoiling gun with a very good trigger extensively before I fire the HiPower.
 
The holy trinity of SA 9mms is CZ, BHP, and HK. There are probably some others out there, but you can't go wrong with these.

You *especially* can't go wrong with the CZ. Hint, hint.
 
I have the cz75b. No decocker but it is either double action or cocked and locked. I can have it both ways like having your cake and eat it too. :) The cz is a great pistol, almost as accurate as my kimber. Mark
 
I just looked on the CZ website, and it appears that the regular CZ75B has a DA mode. However the CZ75B SA does not have a DA mode.

What do you guys think of the CZ75B SA as a home defense gun and casual target practice gun?
 
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USPs are great pistols. The decocker can be a problem if you carry cocked and locked and like to shoot with your right thumb riding the safety. I am used to shooting 1911s in this manner and occassionally I will put too much pressure on the USP's safety/decocker causing the gun to not fire when I pull the trigger. It does not decock, just feels like the trigger is disconnected. I am sure someone else can explain what happens better than I.
I love my BHP except for the heavy trigger and mag disconnect. It needs a trigger job and to have the magazine thingy removed. I chose the BHP over a CZ because I felt the slide on the BHP was easier to grasp and hi-cap magazines are readily available.
Also, you might see if you can find a CZ-75 SA. They look pretty nice.
 

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Yea, I was just over on the CZ website, the CZ75-B SA looks great. I wouldn't get the regular CZ75-B because I have no need for a DA mode.

I'm wondering about the HK-USP9. The website says that it has "9 different trigger/firing mode configurations". Well, that's kind of what I'm trying to get away from. I just want a simple SA with an external safety, is that too much to ask? I don't get it why HK would complicate things to such a high degree....I mean c'mon, 9 different trigger/firing mode configurations??

Anyway, the HK website did say that "The USP can be converted from one trigger/firing mode to another". So, I'm wondering about that. Is that something a gunsmith can do? It would be great if I could get a HK-USP9 and get the decocker taken off, to just make it a SA only gun with the external safety. Also, another thing, I don't need safety and decocking levers on BOTH sides of the gun...man, this gun is REALLY complicated. What else are they gonna do, add brail markings on the slide? :)

Anyway, I've heard some bad things about the quality of the trigger on the BHP (from two different people now), so I'm sort of not inclined to consider that one. The CZ75B-SA seems like exactly the sort of pistol I am interested in, any others have any negative comments about it at all? (I mostly hear only very positive things about it, I'm wondering if it has any negatives, and don't say it doesn't! Even the SIG has some negatives, for example the finish quality).
 
9 configs...

The 9 configurations are the 9 "options" you have of setting up your gun, but are not actually "settings" that you need to worry about.

In short, all there is is fire, lock (cocked and locked), and decock.

The 9 configurations are the options you have of customizing the pistol to your own personal preference, including DAO, right hand, left hand, ambi, no manual safety, no control lever at all, no decock, etc. You actually have quite a few options and can customize the pistol to your liking / to the current situation by taking it to the gunsmith, but afterwards there's nothing you should need to worry about during normal firing/functioning.

For the most part, the most common configuration is right-handed safety/fire/decock, with the lever for right-handed shooters, and this will likely be the model you see at any gun shop.
 
In defense of the BHP....

The biggest "problem" with the trigger of the HP is actually the magazine disconnect. This slides a bit across the face of the magazine when the trigger is pulled.

You can improve the trigger 2 easy ways.

Polish the face of the magazine, or better yet, buy some of the nickle 17 rnd mags from CDNN ($20)

You can remove the mag disconnect. I'm medium handy and it took me a punch and 2 or 3 minutes of my time.

I've done this and I'd say my trigger is awesome. Breaks like a glass rod, no grit, no problems.

Ironically, I did this to let my mag's drop more freely, not to improve my trigger. It was never that bad.

Of course, you can also have a smith work on it, but I'd try these two options first.

Shoot well
 
Ump45,

What you want is available in H&K. Dealers usually stock the gun with the Variant 1 control lever (safety/decocker for right handed shooters). Order the Variant 9 (safety/no decocker) for right handed shooters or Variant 10 for left handed shooters. Any of the USP models can be changed to any of the 10 Variants.

Go to hkpro.com (The Unofficial Site for the Uncompromising Heckler & Koch Enthusiast) for information on anything H&K. Far more informative than the H&K's own website.

http://boards.hkpro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi is the H&K user forum.
 
H&K's different configurations aren't a problem at all. You can change to a no-decock (or any other variant) in about one minute, with a $10 part. No tools are needed.

I've got H&K USPs and CZ75s in 9mm, and highly recommend either. For a 9mm combat pistol I don't think you can beat these two, and the CZ is a bargain, to boot.

Don't know much about the Browning HP, but I've purchased full-capacity mags for when I get around to buying one. They have an excellent reputation, and seem to be the standard by which other 9mm service pistols are judged by. I understand they're not the most durable pistol in the world (they don't hold up to thousands of rounds of +p as well as the HK or CZ), but I don't think they're fragile by any means.

Why are you so set against even having a DA mode? Even if you never use it, it doesn't hurt anything. I suppose you can get a better trigger on a straight SA with some smithing, but not enough better than the DA/SA to matter unless you're shooting bullseye competition.
 
I was looking at three mentioned in this thread...HK, Sig, CZ also.
Went today and bought the HK...it is Variant 1, can carry cocked and locked, or decock it. The action to go from fire down to decock is firm, you pretty much have to do it deliberately.
I held and fired the Sig and CZ (compact). Just thought the HK felt better in my hand. CZ was a little heavier, but I WAS looking for CCW, so just my situation.

jdhermit
 
kdmoore - Good post. Thank you. I just caught that "Mixed Report" line myself.
The Hi Power is an OUTSTANDING pistol. Should I be armed with one, I'd feel just fine.
 
Have both BHP and CZ75b

CZ has been more reliable than BHP, had one FTE with BHP in about the first 1000 rds, none since.

BHP offers more an ambi safety and it's easier to replace the sights if you want to do so.

Both fit my hands extremely well, though the factory stocks had to go.

SA trigger on the CZ was better than the BHP IMHO.

Accuracy is about even in my hands.

Hicaps are easier to get for the CZ.

Personal pet peeve. CZ regulates POI using the rear sight. I would really like to have a taller front sight for the CZ. That's okay though since I'm searching for replacement sights for it in any case.

Standard TFL statement follows "Try both and see which one you like better" ;)

Good holsters for the CZ are hard to find, you pretty much have to go the custom route.
 
You won't go wrong with the CZ, or the HK, but my vote is for the BHP. It is the most reliable gun I have ever owned. Mine still has the mag safety intact and the trigger is a crisp 5.5lbs. It was about 7 lbs and gritty out of the box, but really improved after the first 200 rounds.

Aesthetically speaking I think the BHP wins hands down. CZ uses Philips head grip screws:barf: and I don't think the safety lever is positioned very ergonomically. The MKIII BHP's safety is easy to reach and in the right place. You'd be hard pressed to find a pistol that feels as good in the hand as the BHP.

In my experience it has been the easiest to find affordable pre-ban hi-cap mags for the HP. Currently they are in the $40 range for Mec-Gar's. And of course parts and leather choices abound. If you want to learn more about the HP, go to http://www.fnhipower.com
 
I put the burden of proof on newcomers like the HK to prove they are top shelf like the BHP. I just picked up my newest second hand one that had seen exactly zero drops of oil since it was built in 1987. An hour later after much CLP and a little 4000 grit sandpaper and I'm at the range for 150 absolutely flawless rounds. If people are making BHP's malfunction they are doing something seriously wrong. It's definitely a top line pistol, will do everything you want for damn near forever. It's my benchmark, if a gun is as good as a BHP then it's ok for me. I think the HK makes that cut, but the Brownings still feel sooo much better in hand. I cannot wait to get the pair customized, I'm thinking a full Cylinder & Slide workover and some hardcrhome, about 20 more 17 rd. mags and I'll be good to go. :D
 
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