S&W Victory model question

P

PLS4886

New member
I have been told this revolver is designed to shoot .38 cartrides and was made for the British.
I am aware that the .38 is smaller than the .38 special.
.38 special rounds have been fired through the gun many times.
Will shooting .38 special rounds through this gun damage it or does anyone have any comments I should be aware of?
Thanks,
D :confused:
 
Danger Will Robinson, danger! That is my first thought on converted WWII S&Ws. It really depends on who did and how the conversion was done. I have seen many that were simply reamed and opened up straight through. These often will chamber 357 Magnum and I place them in the UNSAFE category. Some were properly rechambered by knowledgable gunsmiths and companies, they are fine. I have one that was completely gone through. The cylinder and assembly were replaced and retimed by S&W. They are fine. I would NOT use any +P rounds in any older S&W. The safer route is to only use 38 S&W short rounds in 147 gr. I do trust them with these older revolvers as they are loaded in reduced, black powder pressures and won't cause a KB. If your revolver was properly converted, the barrel, cylinder and timing will be reworked. You will have a 38 S&W Special Cartridge marked barrel. The difference is that a 38 S&W short is larger than a 38 Special and will lead up a 38 Special barrel quickly. If you are shooting 38 Specials out of a 38 S&W short barrel then there is a loss of velocity and accuracy as it won't grab the lands/grooves. The best route is to ask a gunsmith to check things out.
 
Gunsmith has it now and it is marked 38 S&W Special Ctg.
I do not know much about the gun, only that it came with a half a box of .38 special rounds.
Gunsmith is trying to get me some new grips for it. The ones that are on it are not the correct grips for the gun.
Thank you for your thoughts.
D
 
if it says ".38 S&W Special Ctg" on the barrel then we can take it that it was made as a .38 Special, probably on a US Navy order. These were all 4" barrels, with a few 2" ones for the Justice Dept.
 
S&W Victory model question
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The .38 Special is the Victory Model.

It started with the "Military and Police Model 1905 Revolver, Fourth Change" aka M&P (later called the S&W Model 10). A great many of these were sent to England in .38 S&W caliber prior to the US entering the war.

After the US entered the war, S&W began making the M&P in .38 Special, primarily for use by Navy and Marine pilots. These were the ones that were dubbed "Victory Model." The original Victory Models had a "V" prefix in the serial number. A little later, S&W made a change to prevent the gun from firing when dropped on the hammer. From that point on, they used the "VS" prefix.
 
It is most definetly marked, 38 S&W Special Ctg. on the barrel.
It is also marked with a V and a serial number in the 33,000 range.
I believe it has a 4" barrel, I don't have it with me.
I am wondering if it was a model made for the British as it does say "US property' on it.
I was also wondering why it would not say "S&W 38 special Ctg", if it were a 38 special.
I am not sure, that is why I am asking. :confused:
Dan
 
Barrel markings

I have right here in front of me a unused surplus Victory model barrel for the non special cartridge and it says "38 S&W CTG" on the side, and a British commonwealth surplus example that I got from SOG says the same. I cannot read much else as the gun is very worn and covered over the very worn surface with flaking black British paint. Might say U.S. property somewhere, but this thing falls in the paperweight category right now. Maybe I should part it out! If it has "special" on the barrel, stamped in, at least the barrel is for that ctg. But to be sure, do the special cartridges fit easily and do the cases show any signs of unusual bulging? I would think that if a .357 diameter bullet is snug in the cylinder throat, that it would not be for the larger diameter older cartridge. A 38 special case will only go part way into a 38 S&W chamber, about 1/4" sticks out. A .357 bullet goes right thru the chamber throat, and can rattle around with plenty of play in the throat. The larger barrel does not cause a threat-it would lower velocity and pressures. The over sized chamber in the cyl. allows excessive case expansion and with modern +p loads might rupture the case to allow you to get hurt. The gunsmith can easily guage this.
 
Based on your added information, I believe you do have a question mark revolver. IIRC, they did NOT have a positive hammer block. There are documented incidents of these going BANG when dropped and landing on their hammers hard enough to ignite primers. They were manufactured in 38 Special. If it is stock and not molested, it is a rarer revolver. S&W made design changes early to provide a hammer block safety to avoid accidental discharges and prevent deaths. The grips should be a smooth walnut with no emblem and rounded top. U.S. Property markings were stamped on all V prefix revolvers that I have seen. There were early pre-V frames that were not so marked. Your revolver could be a combination of this and that by war time production needs. I have a 5" British Officers M&P that is finished to excellent pre-war standards. It is a stark contrast to my later non-V prefix British service 38 S&W short revolver that is not as well finished and polished. I also have another non-V prefix S&W M&P 38 S&W that is not marked as U.S. Property. Your revolver should have a lanyard ring in the butt of the grip.
 
I missed typed when I stated, "I am wondering if it was a model made for the British as it does say "US property' on it.", I should have said, "it does not say "US property' on it.".
I looked at the link posted by Ulflyer and the gun most nearly resembles this,
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/sw_v12549/sw_v12549.htm
Thanks for the link.
I don't have the gun with me, it is at my gunsmiths getting cleaned and a new pair of grips being added. The grips that were on it were not original and were not correct for the gun.
I am going to the gun show next weekend and I am going to try and find some original grips and a military holster would dress it up nice.
Sir William said, "Your revolver should have a lanyard ring in the butt of the grip.", it does not, nor does it appear it ever did, no screw hole.
Thank you all for the help, I could not have gotten this far without your input.
Dan
 
WHOA! You might have something there! No lanyard ring? You might have a rara avis. All the WWII models of V or M&P service revolvers I have seen have had lanyard rings. You could have a federal LEO issue revolver or a lunchbox sneak. The serial #s should match. If you have a hodge podge of serial #s, the odds are that somebody assembled some pieces and parts into a revolver.
 
This may be taken as a dumb question, but, what is a lanyard ring for?
Easy answer would be, for a lanyard, then I would have to ask, what is a lanyard?
I don't have the gun, so I cannot check the serial numbers, but I do not recall seeing serial numbers at the bottom, where the lanyard ring would be.
It is most definately numberd "V 33XXX" under the bottom of the barrel.
Dan
 
A lanyard is simply a cord that is attached to the uniform and to the weapon by a lanyard ring. If you fumble, the weapon isn't lost. You simply reel it back in. There are several spots for serial numbers on those WWII models. The barrel flat, the crane, the cylinder, the frame in a few locations and on the inside of the grips in pencil. You may find the true serial number on the front of the gripframe/butt or right by the lanyard ring if yours had one. All numbers should match.
 
I had two Victories in .38 Special. Those were made for the US Navy and have the flaming bomb before the V 555xx in the serial number.

One I traded to a collector years ago and he explained that the grips that were painted in an off-white oil paint on the inside, had been painted by the US Navy.

The barrels were both marked the same: 38 S.&W. specail CTG.
The .38 S&W has a slightly larger bore and will not deliver great accuracy if just the cylinder is reamed, even though lead projectiles will still expand into the rifling.

The one I held on to was machined very roughly and has markings over the left grip D P C 068, which was explained to me, that my gun had been to prison to serve the Department of Public Correction. It had no finish left and I polished it and refinished it and had the interior repaired by a police armourer.
I really like this old piece and it has a special place in my accumulation of guns.
 
Gunsmith is going to check it for serial numbers, i do not recall seeing any other numbers besides the one under the barrel. I definetly do not recall seeing any where the lanyard would have been.
I ordered some new Pachmyer (sp?) grips for it, so I could get rid of the ugly replacement plastic grips that are on it. I also ordered two speed loaders and a cheap holster for it.
I plan on keeping my eyes open for a pair of original wood grips and a WWII era holster for it.
My father has a Springfield M1 Garand that will be coming my way, hopefully not for a long time, that will look good with the "Victory" when I get it all the bells and whistles. My uncle won the Garand at the end of WWII in some sort of shooting match and my father got it when he passed.
Dan
 
As far as serial numbers go, they were a continuation of the numbers used on the British M&P with the original Victory Models starting at around V40000 and going up to V769000. The improved version was then produced up to VS850000. The Victory Model also had a ordnance flaming bomb insignia on the topstrap.

The British M&P model had a 5" barrel and generally had British proof marks.

It looks like you might have one made in that gray time zone between ending production of the British M&P and beginning production of the US Victory Model.
 
It seems that the cylinder and the bottom of the frame (where the lanyard would be), have the same serial numbers, but the barrel has different serial numbers.
Gunsmith said it did not look like the barrel had been changed, but the serial numbers tell us something different.
He was very impressed with the overall condition of the gun and to paraphrase, "get to shootin".
Cylinder has numbers in the 80,XXX range, while barrel has V 33,XXX range.
Dan
 
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