OK, it seems that EVERYONE trashes them ("Smegma", etc.). Yet I can't figure out why. I personally like Glocks, but won't a Sigma do everything a Glock will do, only cheaper? Someone even referred to Sigmas here recently in the past tense, as though they're not produced any more, but they are, and now they have the enhanced or improved versions, which seem quite functional to me. Every one who actually OWNS a Sigma who posts seems to speak quite favorably of them. So what gives?
S&W Sigma pistols
- Thread starter Futo Inu
- Start date
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I had one for awhile a couple of years ago. I gave it up after countless hours of inaccurate shooting. I thought it was me at first, but everyone that shot it had the same problem. Sent it to S&W and they said it was fine. I don't know, maybe it was just a lemon.
It was very top heavy, too. Of course, most of the polymers I have shot have also been somewhat top heavy. The Sigma just seemed to be out of balance or something.
With over 700 rounds I only had 2 malfunctions, one my fault, both in the first 50 rounds. Haven't shot one since, so I don't know about newer ones.
bastage
[This message has been edited by Bastage (edited August 27, 1999).]
It was very top heavy, too. Of course, most of the polymers I have shot have also been somewhat top heavy. The Sigma just seemed to be out of balance or something.
With over 700 rounds I only had 2 malfunctions, one my fault, both in the first 50 rounds. Haven't shot one since, so I don't know about newer ones.
bastage
[This message has been edited by Bastage (edited August 27, 1999).]
My problem with the old Sigma was not that the gun itself was inaccurate (it was not), but that the trigger release was such that it caused the gun to jerk off target. Could have been the jerk pulling the trigger, but others had the same problem, and I have been shooting for about 50 years and usually do fairly well. I hope the new Sigma has the problem licked.
Jim
Jim
Howdy,
I have owned a sigma 40V for a few years now. The gun is accurate and reliable. My gun doesn't like aluminum ammo, but everything else I ahve tried is fine. The trigger is stiff, but gets better after lots of use like most S&W triggers. I do think some of the complaints about inaccurate sigmas are the result of the difficult to master stiff trigger in new guns. Most people just hate S&W sigmas because it is a copy of Glock's design.
I have owned a sigma 40V for a few years now. The gun is accurate and reliable. My gun doesn't like aluminum ammo, but everything else I ahve tried is fine. The trigger is stiff, but gets better after lots of use like most S&W triggers. I do think some of the complaints about inaccurate sigmas are the result of the difficult to master stiff trigger in new guns. Most people just hate S&W sigmas because it is a copy of Glock's design.
Okay, I'm an admitted Glock'aholic so, consider my statements biased.
S&W Sigma:
I did not like the shape of the grip and, it felt to slick.
Accuracy was poor for the vast majority of shooters even if it would Ransom Rest a good group. Why? The trigger. A very bad trigger at that, along the lines of cheap no name under $100 auto's. Do the triggers on the new guns feel like they are pulling through 3 different arcs (it was like the hinge pin moved during the trigger stroke).
Reliability and ease of use for most "average" users was sub-par. At the range one day, I watched a guy who had a several pistols on the bench doing very poorly with S&W Sigma. He did just fine with the SIG P226, HK P7, and the other name brand pistols on the bench but, that Sigma made the me nervous when he fired it (kicked up dirt 7 feet in front of the bench one time, only to hit the overhead baffles next time). When I asked him about it, he indicated the pistol was defective (it was jamming plenty as well). I asked if I could shoot it to see what was wrong and get that gun off the bench. Surprise, surprise - he was amazed that I put an entire magazine on target in a decent group at 50 feet without a mal-function. He tried again and had the same results as before. I think I convinced him to trade it off on something he shoot better as that was a hazardous combination.
Glock:
Extremely consistent manufacturing. Trigger pulls are reasonable weight and pretty smooth once you get used to that striker safe action setup. Accuracy has been outstanding as has reliability. All in all, ~$400 well spent for the vast majority of people.
How many people have broken a S&W Sigma (parts failure)? Glocks are known for their long lifespans and ability to take abuse. How about that S&W Sigma.
Sid
S&W Sigma:
I did not like the shape of the grip and, it felt to slick.
Accuracy was poor for the vast majority of shooters even if it would Ransom Rest a good group. Why? The trigger. A very bad trigger at that, along the lines of cheap no name under $100 auto's. Do the triggers on the new guns feel like they are pulling through 3 different arcs (it was like the hinge pin moved during the trigger stroke).
Reliability and ease of use for most "average" users was sub-par. At the range one day, I watched a guy who had a several pistols on the bench doing very poorly with S&W Sigma. He did just fine with the SIG P226, HK P7, and the other name brand pistols on the bench but, that Sigma made the me nervous when he fired it (kicked up dirt 7 feet in front of the bench one time, only to hit the overhead baffles next time). When I asked him about it, he indicated the pistol was defective (it was jamming plenty as well). I asked if I could shoot it to see what was wrong and get that gun off the bench. Surprise, surprise - he was amazed that I put an entire magazine on target in a decent group at 50 feet without a mal-function. He tried again and had the same results as before. I think I convinced him to trade it off on something he shoot better as that was a hazardous combination.
Glock:
Extremely consistent manufacturing. Trigger pulls are reasonable weight and pretty smooth once you get used to that striker safe action setup. Accuracy has been outstanding as has reliability. All in all, ~$400 well spent for the vast majority of people.
How many people have broken a S&W Sigma (parts failure)? Glocks are known for their long lifespans and ability to take abuse. How about that S&W Sigma.
Sid
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
You know - I had a friend that had GREMLIN...
It was a good little peice of tranportation. Pretty solid reliability - drove straight... Wasn't the FASTEST car around, and not as handsome as the Fiat another friend had or the Audi I had... But it always went from point A to point B with no problems.
Hmmm - Seem to recall he traded it for an amp for his stereo.
Go Figure.
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"America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
It was a good little peice of tranportation. Pretty solid reliability - drove straight... Wasn't the FASTEST car around, and not as handsome as the Fiat another friend had or the Audi I had... But it always went from point A to point B with no problems.
Hmmm - Seem to recall he traded it for an amp for his stereo.
Go Figure.
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"America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
Glock Raider
New member
I had a Sigma in 40S&W It was fairly accurate and I liked the grip angle, I traded it off on a CZ75 after the striker broke and propelled it self out of the barrel when I was dry firing it also I wasn't crazy about the eight# trigger. spend the extra$$ buy the real thing you won't be sorry 
TEXAS LAWMAN
New member
I have four Sigmas: one each in .40 full size, .40 compact, 9mm full, 9mm compact. These are the original Sigmas, not enhanced, not the 'value' model--the original. I have had absolutely no jams or other problems with any of them. However, I have heard some pretty disparaging remarks from other Sigma owners & shooters.
BTW, I carry a Colt .45ACP on- and off-duty. Got no beef with the polymeric guns, but I don't NEED one as long as I have a .45 or two. I like Glocks, Sigmas and Kel-Tecs, but I don't NEED one.
BTW, I carry a Colt .45ACP on- and off-duty. Got no beef with the polymeric guns, but I don't NEED one as long as I have a .45 or two. I like Glocks, Sigmas and Kel-Tecs, but I don't NEED one.
Real Eye Witness Stuff: I teach at my State's Law Enforcement Training Center, in the firearm program and see Sigma's come through. Watched a shooter struggle with persistent light/non-existent primer hits, his department ships him another Sigma overnight, only to continue the problem. In talking with that officer, he revealed that 1/3 of the department's Sigmas do this. I see this happen with the Sigma, in training, about 10% of the time.
On the training range I watched staff instructors shoot the gun with the same result, infrequent failures to fire.
I see it with other LE Sigmas, but have not done detailed investigations as to Department experience. I got to play with a T&E Enhanced Sigma in .40 caliber, and as a brand new gun, had 10% no/light hits on primers.The new Enhanced Sigma was fired only by experienced shooters. One department advised me that they send their guns back to S&W and are told that all springs are replaced. I am talking to another municipal agency that has a similar problem, but I don't have any numbers or circumstances yet. From an adjoining state comes a report of this problem coming up during a gunfight, where the officer survived, no thanks to his duty Sigma. Still trying to flesh this one out though.
[This message has been edited by Kilroy (edited August 29, 1999).]
On the training range I watched staff instructors shoot the gun with the same result, infrequent failures to fire.
I see it with other LE Sigmas, but have not done detailed investigations as to Department experience. I got to play with a T&E Enhanced Sigma in .40 caliber, and as a brand new gun, had 10% no/light hits on primers.The new Enhanced Sigma was fired only by experienced shooters. One department advised me that they send their guns back to S&W and are told that all springs are replaced. I am talking to another municipal agency that has a similar problem, but I don't have any numbers or circumstances yet. From an adjoining state comes a report of this problem coming up during a gunfight, where the officer survived, no thanks to his duty Sigma. Still trying to flesh this one out though.
[This message has been edited by Kilroy (edited August 29, 1999).]
Kilroy,
It is truely a sad state of affairs when law enforcement officers lives are put at risk because of known defective equipment.
I sincerely hope these agencies learn their lessons before one of the men (or ladies) in blue has to pay for their departments bad choice with their blood or life.
How many of us would tolerate those percentages of malfunctions at the target range plinking? Never mind when shooting IDPA/IPSC/etc.
I carry concealed in Texas. I can live with a malfunction that is user created (within reason) since the chances of actually ever needing it to save my life are remote, much more remote then the men in blue who go into harms way on a daily basis to protect people like myself. Mechanical failure of the firearm itself is absolutely unacceptable.
Do we need to start a fund to put reliable sidearms in law enforcement officers hands when their own agency doesn't? There are programs for bullet proof (or is that bullet resistant
) vests. Hmmmm.....
Sid
[This message has been edited by Sid Post (edited August 29, 1999).]
It is truely a sad state of affairs when law enforcement officers lives are put at risk because of known defective equipment.
I sincerely hope these agencies learn their lessons before one of the men (or ladies) in blue has to pay for their departments bad choice with their blood or life.
How many of us would tolerate those percentages of malfunctions at the target range plinking? Never mind when shooting IDPA/IPSC/etc.
I carry concealed in Texas. I can live with a malfunction that is user created (within reason) since the chances of actually ever needing it to save my life are remote, much more remote then the men in blue who go into harms way on a daily basis to protect people like myself. Mechanical failure of the firearm itself is absolutely unacceptable.
Do we need to start a fund to put reliable sidearms in law enforcement officers hands when their own agency doesn't? There are programs for bullet proof (or is that bullet resistant
) vests. Hmmmm.....Sid
[This message has been edited by Sid Post (edited August 29, 1999).]
Walt Sherrill
New member
Yesterday, at the pistol range, a new range member was shooting his new enhanced Sigma 40 S&W. Very accurate, but about every third round was a failure to feed.
We examined it and can't tell if the feedramp needs to be polished, whether he was having magazine problems, or whether it was the ammo (some of the UMC stuff I've never had good luck with.)
We told him to try a different brand of ammo -- perhaps the range ammo (cci blazer) -- put another 100-200 rounds through it, and if it was still malfunctioning, let the range's armorere (Smith and Glock trained) tweak it. If that doesn't do it, send it back to S&W with a list of the problems.
The Sigma's reputation has been horrid, and I've never personally talked to a shooter who had good luck with one. I have seen many messages, like those on this site, which heap praise on the gun.
I'd suspect that a higher number of Sigmas are a problem than is the case for other S&W, Rugers, Berettas, etc. But I also suspect you'll find some of them shooting quite well, and very reliably. Sort of like the luck of the draw.
We examined it and can't tell if the feedramp needs to be polished, whether he was having magazine problems, or whether it was the ammo (some of the UMC stuff I've never had good luck with.)
We told him to try a different brand of ammo -- perhaps the range ammo (cci blazer) -- put another 100-200 rounds through it, and if it was still malfunctioning, let the range's armorere (Smith and Glock trained) tweak it. If that doesn't do it, send it back to S&W with a list of the problems.
The Sigma's reputation has been horrid, and I've never personally talked to a shooter who had good luck with one. I have seen many messages, like those on this site, which heap praise on the gun.
I'd suspect that a higher number of Sigmas are a problem than is the case for other S&W, Rugers, Berettas, etc. But I also suspect you'll find some of them shooting quite well, and very reliably. Sort of like the luck of the draw.
TEXAS LAWMAN
New member
Kilroy,
I'd like you to e-mail me w/details when you get to the bottom of this. I guess I'm just luck this time in that all 4 of my Sigmas are reliable, so far.
Thanks!
I'd like you to e-mail me w/details when you get to the bottom of this. I guess I'm just luck this time in that all 4 of my Sigmas are reliable, so far.
Thanks!
My sigma is at S&W right now. I hope they can get it to feed correctly. Mine jams on the 7th or 8th round in each mag load. Tried UMC Win. and Federal HS.
On the other hand, my Taurus PT940 has not failed to feed since purchased and it has a great trigger and is very accurate straight from the factory.
On the other hand, my Taurus PT940 has not failed to feed since purchased and it has a great trigger and is very accurate straight from the factory.
Jason Demond
New member
I bought a new one and love it
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"Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
- Patrick Henry
http://www.homestead.com/gunrights/Guns_and_Gunrights.html
ICQ no. 46780559
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"Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
- Patrick Henry
http://www.homestead.com/gunrights/Guns_and_Gunrights.html
ICQ no. 46780559
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