BigMike349
New member
Do any companies make a S&W model 3 Russian or Schofield revolver with a transfer bar or other modern safety features (like the new vaquero when compared to the colt saa)?
S&W model 3/schofield with transfer bar?
- Thread starter BigMike349
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Jim Watson
New member
Yes.
The modern reproductions from Uberti have a hammer block akin to a S&W double action. The (discontinued and unsatisfactory) ASM had something similar but I was so glad to see the last of mine that I do not recall details. I don't know what S&W did with their own design, but it includes a frame firing pin and flat faced hammer.
Still, nobody recommends carrying with six rounds.
Timid company lawyers or weak "safety devices," I don't know.
A search found several mentions, including a widget on the Uberti parts diagram at VTI. Some shooters say their repro hasn't got one, some say they took theirs out for smoother operation, some say the first group do not know what to look for.
The modern reproductions from Uberti have a hammer block akin to a S&W double action. The (discontinued and unsatisfactory) ASM had something similar but I was so glad to see the last of mine that I do not recall details. I don't know what S&W did with their own design, but it includes a frame firing pin and flat faced hammer.
Still, nobody recommends carrying with six rounds.
Timid company lawyers or weak "safety devices," I don't know.
A search found several mentions, including a widget on the Uberti parts diagram at VTI. Some shooters say their repro hasn't got one, some say they took theirs out for smoother operation, some say the first group do not know what to look for.
newfrontier45
Moderator
The Uberti's have a hammer block that prevents discharge if the pistol is dropped while the hammer is at the half cock position. This is so they can import them into the US. Rest assured, were it not for that legal requirement, they would not have them. If the hammer is all the way down, the firing pin is fully forward. None have a transfer bar. You 'can' carry them loaded with six rounds if the hammer is at the safety notch or half cock notch but most will not recommend it.
The Beretta Laramie has a rebounding hammer like a S&W double action and is safe with six rounds.
The modern S&W has a frame mounted firing pin but no transfer bar.
The Beretta Laramie has a rebounding hammer like a S&W double action and is safe with six rounds.
The modern S&W has a frame mounted firing pin but no transfer bar.
I am just in a perverse mood today, but Denis is correct. ONLY S&W can make a S&W model 3. Anyone else would just be making a copy or reproduction. So, to properly answer the OP's question, no, since S&W is not making one, no company is making one.
Actually, I am not trying to be perverse, but in asking questions, just like in shooting, being precise does still count.
David
Actually, I am not trying to be perverse, but in asking questions, just like in shooting, being precise does still count.
David
BigMike349
New member
Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to reproductions. I will work on being more specific in my posts.
Jim Watson
New member
Not accurate, either. Colt DA revolvers of the Mk III, Mk V, and SF VI patterns do indeed have transfer bars.
And very irrelevant to the question of large frame S&W single actions and reproductions thereof.
I would like to have a little subroutine to track David's posts, along with all the clip vs magazine experts. I think a lot of posters will focus on a pet phrase in jargon but misuse other terms. I confess to letting the term "1911" pass in reference to guns only distantly related to the US Army sidearm 1912-1925. I have been known to use it myself when the pistol in question is really a Government Model or a non Colt brand entirely. Mea culpa.
Don't get me started on "bore diameter," though.
And very irrelevant to the question of large frame S&W single actions and reproductions thereof.
I would like to have a little subroutine to track David's posts, along with all the clip vs magazine experts. I think a lot of posters will focus on a pet phrase in jargon but misuse other terms. I confess to letting the term "1911" pass in reference to guns only distantly related to the US Army sidearm 1912-1925. I have been known to use it myself when the pistol in question is really a Government Model or a non Colt brand entirely. Mea culpa.
Don't get me started on "bore diameter," though.
newfrontier45
Moderator
I'm all about proper terminology but I think we all know that we're referring to replicas. Obviously, if it's a Uberti it's not a S&W. Just like we know that if it's a Uberti, Pietta or Great Western "SAA", it's not a Colt but a replica. This should be obvious enough that it is unnecessary to split this hair. It ain't productive.
Jim Watson
New member
Again, this is one of those things that is technically true, but incomplete.
The Italian reproductions have hammer blocks, not transfer bars. Someone said they were required for importation. I have READ of them being removed to clean up the action, much like Series 80 parts are often removed from automatics.
I don't know what S&W did to their own copy, but the frame firing pin and flat faced hammer are probably only the tip of the iceberg.
newfrontier45
Moderator
It is technically true and complete. A Ruger-style transfer bar allows safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder. A hammer block does not. Which is the whole point of the question. As I said, on the Uberti guns, if the hammer is all the way down, the firing pin is fully forward. The hammer block only prevents the firing pin from striking the primer if the pistol is dropped but ONLY if it was at the half cock or full cock position. If you lower the hammer all the way down, the firing pin is in contact with the primer.
Only the Beretta version with its rebounding hammer is safe to carry fully loaded.
Only the Beretta version with its rebounding hammer is safe to carry fully loaded.
"A Ruger-style transfer bar allows safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder. A hammer block does not. Which is the whole point of the question. As I said, on the Uberti guns, if the hammer is all the way down, the firing pin is fully forward. The hammer block only prevents the firing pin from striking the primer if the pistol is dropped but ONLY if it was at the half cock or full cock position. If you lower the hammer all the way down, the firing pin is in contact with the primer."
Now are we talking about only the Uberti Schofield copy or are those statements intended to apply to revolvers and transfer bars/hammer blocks in general? If only the Uberti Schofield is meant, the statement is true. If meant to apply to all revolvers with hammer blocks, it is not true.
Jim
Now are we talking about only the Uberti Schofield copy or are those statements intended to apply to revolvers and transfer bars/hammer blocks in general? If only the Uberti Schofield is meant, the statement is true. If meant to apply to all revolvers with hammer blocks, it is not true.
Jim
newfrontier45
Moderator
We're talking about the Schofield, the subject of this thread. The only S&W single action reissues and replicas (to cover ALL bases 
) safe to carry with a fully loaded cylinder is the Beretta. It has a rebounding hammer but not a transfer bar. The hammer block in the Ubert/ASM guns does NOT prevent discharge if the hammer is all the way down on a loaded chamber.
You guys need to stop confusing the matter and derailing the thread with nonsense about double actions. It's entirely irrelevant.
) safe to carry with a fully loaded cylinder is the Beretta. It has a rebounding hammer but not a transfer bar. The hammer block in the Ubert/ASM guns does NOT prevent discharge if the hammer is all the way down on a loaded chamber. You guys need to stop confusing the matter and derailing the thread with nonsense about double actions. It's entirely irrelevant.
Since others have wandered from the Model 3....
If we open the question to all single-action reproductions, then I'll bring up the Uberti Cattleman design.
There is a small hammer block built into the actual hammer. And it keeps the hammer from being able to get the firing pin to the primer, unless the trigger is fully held back.
So if the hammer is eased back just a little, to set this block, then the gun is safe to carry with 6 shells loaded.
Bart Noir
If we open the question to all single-action reproductions, then I'll bring up the Uberti Cattleman design.
There is a small hammer block built into the actual hammer. And it keeps the hammer from being able to get the firing pin to the primer, unless the trigger is fully held back.
So if the hammer is eased back just a little, to set this block, then the gun is safe to carry with 6 shells loaded.
Bart Noir
Jim Watson
New member
But if the Uberti hammer block engages at the safety notch, why not use it that way? (I wouldn't because I consider it a kluge to gain import points and SASS wouldn't let me anyhow.)
newfrontier45
Moderator
If the hammer drops without holding the trigger back, the half cock and safety notches will catch it anyway.
Hi, NewFrontier,
OK, but who is doing the confusing? You said:
" A Ruger-style transfer bar allows safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder. A hammer block does not."
What does a Ruger have to do with a Schofield replica? AFAIK, Ruger does not make such a gun. And you don't mention the Schofield, you just made a general statement about hammer blocks allowing unsafe carry. Even if you limit your statement to the Uberti, that is not true; the hammer block does not engage automatically after firing, but it is there and if engaged will allow safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder.
Besides, I find it hard to believe anyone carries around a loaded Schofield replica; it is not 1875 any more.
Jim
OK, but who is doing the confusing? You said:
" A Ruger-style transfer bar allows safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder. A hammer block does not."
What does a Ruger have to do with a Schofield replica? AFAIK, Ruger does not make such a gun. And you don't mention the Schofield, you just made a general statement about hammer blocks allowing unsafe carry. Even if you limit your statement to the Uberti, that is not true; the hammer block does not engage automatically after firing, but it is there and if engaged will allow safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder.
Besides, I find it hard to believe anyone carries around a loaded Schofield replica; it is not 1875 any more.
Jim