S&W - How the 'DEAL' came to be (you ain't gonna believe this!)

Jeff OTMG

New member
I have reported this info to Fox News desk and hope that they run with the information, but certainly did not want to leave out my buddies at TFL on breaking news.

We all know that S&W signed a 15 page agreement with the govt about 2 weeks ago which required all sorts of things for dealers and distributors to do to be allowed to sell S&W products. This seemed strange to me and you have not seen many comments from me on the subject, as you did on Colt. S&W had to know that these actions would cause a huge backlash in the industry against the manufacturer, as the false rumors did to Colt. I figured that there had to more to the story than S&W was letting on. Guess what? I was right and you aren't going to like it.

S&W is owned by a British company, Thompkins Ltd or something like that. Our pilanderer in chief (president clinton (lower case on purpose to show lack of respect)) has been trying to push more gun control legislation down our throats since Brady in 1994. Remember all the comments about how 'this is a first step' and 'it makes a statement'. Clinton is very upset that he cannot get legislation through congress in this, an election, year. Even the current stuff does not look like it is going to pass. Our resolve is too strong and we are too powerful. He feels that this is making him look bad because he is not able to get done what he wants, and we all know how far he will go to get what he wants, including lying and cheating. The lawsuits against the industry from the cities were the first step, encouraged by Reno, to circumvent our legislative process. Clinton then directed HUD, with help from Reno, to attack the gun industry in court, once again to get around his failure to push his agenda through the legislative branch. The gun law suits will not be successful. Reno knows this, but by bringing enough suits, and to have them go far enough through the legal system, would cost the industry millions of dollars in legal fees just to respond to all of them. Unfortunately, for the clinton administration, most of the suits have been getting thrown out of court at very early stages and have not had the impact on the industry that had been hoped for, meaning that they have not been costing them enough money. They never expected a fight, let alone that the gun people would win. The administration is fully aware of the impact that holding a manufacturer liable for misuse of a product, for the lifetime of the product, would cause. The auto industry could be especially hard hit and that means union votes. Clinton needed a company to break the 'dam' on making a deal before the rest of the cases are dismissed in court and he suffers more humiliation. Enter S&W, owned by a British company. The British system operates differently from our own, so clinton contacts British Prime Minister Tony Blair. Blair is able to apply pressure to Thompkins to force S&W into a deal. That gives clinton the win he needs to break the impass with the other companies. What he had not counted on was that HUD is not that informed on the type of people gun activists are. As we all know RSR, S&W largest distributor, and many 'stocking dealers' have been sending back inventory rather than comply with the agreement that they were committed to by S&W. Now no gun manufacturer in their right mind would sign onto the agreement that S&W did. It had exactly the opposite effect on the industry than was intended. It is less costly to go to court for them than it is to drop sales by over 25%, or even 50%. In an attempt to plug this leak we are now seeing investigations by state, and I suspect soon U.S., attorney generals of anti-trust activity on the part of the gun industry.

This is an obvious attempt to circumvent the U.S. Constitution and our entire system. We have a judicial, legislative, and executive branches separated for a reason. Each one keeps the others in check. Now were have the executive branch using the judicial branch and the power of friendly foriegn govts to bypass the legislative branch. If this is not an illegal activity, manipulating the branches of govt for personal reason, it damn well ought to be.

I like S&W. I always have. They make a great revolver, but we obviously cannot support them after signing the agreement. The only thing we can do is to get the word out on the actions that clinton has taken to circumvent our legislative process. By making this public we may find that S&W will be allowed to back out of the deal it made. That would prove all this information wrong and hand clinton another VERY public defeat. As a result will S&W be allowed to fail? I don't know, it isn't up to me. That is up to president clinton and the British Prime Minister.

I will pass on any more info I get. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

[This message has been edited by Jeff OTMG (edited March 31, 2000).]
 
Sounds quite plausible, and makes a boatload of sense.

I also feel (as I've heard stuff about S&W re-thinking and trying to figure out how to back out of the deal) that we cut S&W absolutely no slack whatsoever as long as it is owned by the Brits. No forgiveness, never.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Fascinating.

I'm willing to believe every word of it, but I need some source citations. Where do you get this information that Clinton exerted pressure on Major, who then exerted pressure on Thomkins? Also, surely you know that Tony Blair is the P.M. of Great Britain? Or is this pressure supposed to have been applied that long ago?

More details, PLEASE.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Buying no more new S&W, nor buying from stores that do,

L.P.
 
LongPath, thanks. I made the correction and of course you are correct Blair not Major. I am surprised I didn't write Thatcher!
smile.gif
What do you expect I slept since I got the call last night.

Sorry guys, no sources. It came from an industry person I know who got a call from his 'guy' in Washington.

Look for increased pressure on the industry to sign on before S&W is released, if ever, from their obligation.
 
When will Brits learn their lesson? We kicked their rear-end's once and we will do it again! Now is the time to stay strong. Dealing with clinton is like dealing with Plantar's warts, you just have to keep zapping em' with cryogenic gas until their gone whether it hurts or not. We must continue in our reslove.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
I saw a program sometime after Blair made PM, He is a Klinton wannabe, So I can believe that he would do this for his idol. As far as Smith goes I will not purchase anything from them as long as they remain in this deal and in British ownership. I will buy used pre- sellout Smiths. I have always liked their revolvers and would like nothing more than to own that new Schofield, but you all know where they can shove that ? :D. As far as I'm concerned Smith is dead,no longer exists to me :(


Happy Shooting :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
The only good Smith is a pre-SWTD (Smith and Wesson Traitor Day) Smith. Lets make the term as common as preban, since it equals about the same thing.

No new Smith's sold to the private citizenry on US soil until this illegal travesty is rectified!

Gee sounds like something that might have been said in Boston just prior to the revolution. Only it was tea then - scarey.
 
Your story souds pretty good, however I would like to disagree on one point. Last December clinton held a policy meeting where it was later announced the he was going to do everything he could to get gun control, including bypassing Congress.
We are seeing the results of that meeting. My point of contention is the anti-trust investigations are part of the plan. The administration new there would be a backlash against whomever signed that deal. The investigations are another step to tie up money in legal battles. The government has to prove nothing. Then there is the statements of the officials pushing the investigations. All of them state the are doing the right thing. That instantly puts them on the moral high ground, making it harder to mount an effective public defense against them. Of course the media stories all agree with them. So the get even more free publicity for destroying the gun industry.
What is happening is the most serious threat to this nation, ever. The power of the Federal government operating without any control. And for its own good.

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I believe that some states have laws against 'malicious prosecution' intended to punish those who file frivilous lawsuits whose sole purpose is to harrass the innocent. We should bring on our own anti-trust lawsuit against the federal government for its 'malicious prosecution' of the firearms industry. In those states where the city's suits have already been dismissed, the industry could make a counter claim or have the ruling changed to 'dismissed with predjudice' which would require the filer of the frivilous suit to pay all court costs and legal fees from both parties. This would stop this insanity right quick! Some additional damage awards (punitive damages) would be icing on the cake!

The major problem with this way of thinking is that you need the Fed's permission to file a lawsuit against them! That really smacks of a conflict of interest!

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Remember, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!
 
Great intel. FYI, it's "Tompkins" :)
Please don't burst my bubble and tell me Margaret Thatcher would have had anything to do with something like this (unless it's true of course). Clinton would have been scared to death of her.
While this news is rather depressing there is some encouraging light in it.

That is they don't expect us to fight back.

Time to dig in and show them what we're made of. We need to keep pressure on our legislators and (VERY IMPORTANT) financially support the good guys.

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Armatissimi y Liberissimi!
 
Jeff. I really think this message should be posted on all the other forums. If I knew how do do it, I would.
Paul B.
 
As the song says:

"send lawyers,guns,and money"

I am encouraged that even many non gun people think this is sick.
 
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