S&W Frame Letters??
- Thread starter RH Factor
- Start date
It's Frame Size
Basically, those letters describe the size (and the sturdiness) of the frame.
For example, the K-frame is the medium size frame which most of their .38Spl/.357Mag revolvers are built on. Some K-frames were used for smaller calibers also in order to produce guns of different calibers which had similar feels.
The N-frame is a heavier and beefier frame generally used for the bigger cartridges, .41 and .44 Magnums, although they were also used for some .357s also.
The J-frame was used for smaller pistols, usually pocket-style pistols of .38Spl and smaller calibers. But improvements in metallurgy allowed some new J-frames to be rated for .357Magnum such as my older Model 640.
I forget what the I-frame was used for, but I can check Roy Jinks' book for that.
These are general guidelines as to the larger calibe which was normally produced in the frame size. Smaller calibers could always be produced for various reasons.
I hope this helps.
Frosty
MOLON LABE
Basically, those letters describe the size (and the sturdiness) of the frame.
For example, the K-frame is the medium size frame which most of their .38Spl/.357Mag revolvers are built on. Some K-frames were used for smaller calibers also in order to produce guns of different calibers which had similar feels.
The N-frame is a heavier and beefier frame generally used for the bigger cartridges, .41 and .44 Magnums, although they were also used for some .357s also.
The J-frame was used for smaller pistols, usually pocket-style pistols of .38Spl and smaller calibers. But improvements in metallurgy allowed some new J-frames to be rated for .357Magnum such as my older Model 640.
I forget what the I-frame was used for, but I can check Roy Jinks' book for that.
These are general guidelines as to the larger calibe which was normally produced in the frame size. Smaller calibers could always be produced for various reasons.
I hope this helps.
Frosty
MOLON LABE
The frame letter designations are generally used when describing a particular revolver by size. The model numbers are all over the place, and seldom give a lot of useful information unless you (like many of us) have read about and handled enough of 'em to memorize them.
To your question, the only revo's that have been made recently are the J, K, L, and N frame models. (from smallest to largest)
The J-frame has been used for fixed sight pocket revos in .22, .32, .38, 9mm, and .357 calibers, as well as adjustable sight "field guns" in .22 and .38. Most sport 2-4 inch barrels, come in blue, nickel and stainless, with square or round butts.
The K-frame (my rave-fave) has been made in all the above calibers and configs above, but have had barrels as long as 8 3/8" long. This is a medium-frame size, and was Smith's best seller by a long chalk.
The L-frame is S&W's most recent product, beginning (IIRC) in the very early 80's. For comparison, the K-frame precedes the 20th Century, and the J-frame came out IIRC in 1950. This is a medium-heavy size, originally brought out in .357, with an eye toward police applications. Smith's timing was terrible, as this was just about the time that many PD's abandoned their century-old relationships with revos to go to autopistols. L-frames are available in .357 and .44Spl. FYI, the L-frame uses the same grips as the K-frame.
The N-frame is the largest currently available from Smith, and I think is the largest they ever made. It's available in .357, .41 mag, 44Mag, .45Colt and .45 ACP. I think they are the most desirable revolvers in existence, but that's just me.
I'm sure others can add much more to this quick sketch.
To your question, the only revo's that have been made recently are the J, K, L, and N frame models. (from smallest to largest)
The J-frame has been used for fixed sight pocket revos in .22, .32, .38, 9mm, and .357 calibers, as well as adjustable sight "field guns" in .22 and .38. Most sport 2-4 inch barrels, come in blue, nickel and stainless, with square or round butts.
The K-frame (my rave-fave) has been made in all the above calibers and configs above, but have had barrels as long as 8 3/8" long. This is a medium-frame size, and was Smith's best seller by a long chalk.
The L-frame is S&W's most recent product, beginning (IIRC) in the very early 80's. For comparison, the K-frame precedes the 20th Century, and the J-frame came out IIRC in 1950. This is a medium-heavy size, originally brought out in .357, with an eye toward police applications. Smith's timing was terrible, as this was just about the time that many PD's abandoned their century-old relationships with revos to go to autopistols. L-frames are available in .357 and .44Spl. FYI, the L-frame uses the same grips as the K-frame.
The N-frame is the largest currently available from Smith, and I think is the largest they ever made. It's available in .357, .41 mag, 44Mag, .45Colt and .45 ACP. I think they are the most desirable revolvers in existence, but that's just me.
I'm sure others can add much more to this quick sketch.
They were internal (within the factory) designations to differentiate the various basic frame sizes of their new, modern swing out hand ejector series of handguns. The older ones used numbered frame sizes.
M frame is the smallest, followed by I, then J, K, L and N. J frame is a late comer slightly larger than the I. L is also a late comer that falls tween K and N. These are in order of frame size, not caliber.
Naturally the screamin big calibers generaly are found in the larger frames. Lot of exceptions tho.
There was a great thread here that laid em all out in great detail but I can no longer bring it up.
I am sure there will be more to follow on this one.
Here is some dope on the little M frame
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=55457
Sam
M frame is the smallest, followed by I, then J, K, L and N. J frame is a late comer slightly larger than the I. L is also a late comer that falls tween K and N. These are in order of frame size, not caliber.
Naturally the screamin big calibers generaly are found in the larger frames. Lot of exceptions tho.
There was a great thread here that laid em all out in great detail but I can no longer bring it up.
I am sure there will be more to follow on this one.
Here is some dope on the little M frame
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=55457
Sam
Mike Irwin
Staff
From smallest to largest, with most commonly chambered calibers listed...
M -- 7-shot .22 LR only. Made prior to and just after WW I. 3 separate models, EXTREMELY desirable for collectors.
I -- .22, .32 Long, and .38 S&W. The I-frame .32 Hand Ejector was the FIRST S&W Hand Ejector, introduced in 1896, 3 years before what became known as the K-frame. A very few reportedly were factory made in .32 S&W; an authentic one would be worth a lot of money.
I Improved -- Same size as the I-frame, with the same calibers. It introduced the coil mainspring.
J -- .22, .22 Mag., .32 Long, .32 Mag., .38 Spl., .357 Mag., 9mm. Introduced post WW II, and made concurrently with the I frame for a number of years. Introduced because the I frame was too short for the .38 Spl.
K -- .22, .32 Long, .32-20, .38, .357, and others.
L -- .357 Mag. (predominantly), .44 Spl. recently, .38 Spl. as special order, and possibly a few others. Introduced in the early 1980s as a beefed up K frame to give better life with .357 Mag. ammo.
N -- .38 Spl., .357 Mag., .41 Mag., 10 mm, .44 Spl., .44 Mag., .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and many many others. Largest of all of S&W's frame sizes for the big cartridges.
One thing of interest.
While most people refer to the stainless steel guns as being J, K, L, N frames, etc., they really aren't. The factory has a different set of letters that are used for referring to the frames on those firearms.
M -- 7-shot .22 LR only. Made prior to and just after WW I. 3 separate models, EXTREMELY desirable for collectors.
I -- .22, .32 Long, and .38 S&W. The I-frame .32 Hand Ejector was the FIRST S&W Hand Ejector, introduced in 1896, 3 years before what became known as the K-frame. A very few reportedly were factory made in .32 S&W; an authentic one would be worth a lot of money.
I Improved -- Same size as the I-frame, with the same calibers. It introduced the coil mainspring.
J -- .22, .22 Mag., .32 Long, .32 Mag., .38 Spl., .357 Mag., 9mm. Introduced post WW II, and made concurrently with the I frame for a number of years. Introduced because the I frame was too short for the .38 Spl.
K -- .22, .32 Long, .32-20, .38, .357, and others.
L -- .357 Mag. (predominantly), .44 Spl. recently, .38 Spl. as special order, and possibly a few others. Introduced in the early 1980s as a beefed up K frame to give better life with .357 Mag. ammo.
N -- .38 Spl., .357 Mag., .41 Mag., 10 mm, .44 Spl., .44 Mag., .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and many many others. Largest of all of S&W's frame sizes for the big cartridges.
One thing of interest.
While most people refer to the stainless steel guns as being J, K, L, N frames, etc., they really aren't. The factory has a different set of letters that are used for referring to the frames on those firearms.
4thHorseman
New member
I vaguely remember an obscure detail on the naming of the frame. It had something to do with the railroad storing some S&W guns in a lettered bin. When ever they would get these guns they would go into a lettered bin awaiting shipment. Somehow S&W found out about it and started calling their gun frame sizes after the letter. After a while the next size S&W was called the next letter. It was quite a while ago I heard this, and I remember little else on it. There is no rhyme or reason on size of the frame going up or down with the letters accending or decending.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
Do they stamp the letter on the frame anywhere?
4thHorseman
New member
I've never seen S&W stamp the size of the frame anywhere. It's one of those things, you've just have to know the size by reading it somewhere, someone telling you, or seeing one like it. Confusing , isn't it?
"While most people refer to the stainless steel guns as being J, K, L, N frames, etc., they really aren't. The factory has a different set of letters that are used for referring to the frames on those firearms." -- Mike Irwin
I haven't heard this before, Mike. Can you elaborate for us?
I haven't heard this before, Mike. Can you elaborate for us?
Mike Irwin
Staff
Zander,
Stainless frames are indicated as such...
J = E
K = F
L = H
N = G
These were adopted apparently for factory inventory purposes so they could differentiate between the number of blued J size frames they had on hand vs. stainless frames.
Regarding how the early Hand Ejectors actually got their letter names.
It's very doubtful that the railroad had anything at all to do with it. The letter codes show up in factory records not very long after the Hand Ejectors were introduced.
It was most likely a simple factory expediency to differentiate between the different hand ejector frames as well as the break-top auto ejector guns, which continued in production for some years after the introduction of the Hand Ejectors.
The auto ejectors frames were assigned numbers to differentiate the sizes, so it is logical that the Hand Ejectors would receive letters.
Stainless frames are indicated as such...
J = E
K = F
L = H
N = G
These were adopted apparently for factory inventory purposes so they could differentiate between the number of blued J size frames they had on hand vs. stainless frames.
Regarding how the early Hand Ejectors actually got their letter names.
It's very doubtful that the railroad had anything at all to do with it. The letter codes show up in factory records not very long after the Hand Ejectors were introduced.
It was most likely a simple factory expediency to differentiate between the different hand ejector frames as well as the break-top auto ejector guns, which continued in production for some years after the introduction of the Hand Ejectors.
The auto ejectors frames were assigned numbers to differentiate the sizes, so it is logical that the Hand Ejectors would receive letters.
C-frame
As long as Mike Irwin and others are giving such a fine explanation, I figure I'd make it more complete with a bit of esoterica. There is another S&W revolver frame size not yet mentioned: The C Frame.
No, this is not a joke.
Seems that S&W wanted to better compete with Colt's D-frame and come out with a home-grown 6-shot .38 revolver only a little bigger than the J-frame, but smaller than the K-frame.
In 1973 approximately 5,000 Model 73 round butt, C-frame revolvers were made, and all but 5 (for top S&W executives) were destroyed (according to Roy Jinks).
The above info comes to me from Jim Supica of Old Town Station, who sold one for only $9,850. He states the M-73 is "probably the rarest numbered model revolver."
As long as Mike Irwin and others are giving such a fine explanation, I figure I'd make it more complete with a bit of esoterica. There is another S&W revolver frame size not yet mentioned: The C Frame.
No, this is not a joke.
Seems that S&W wanted to better compete with Colt's D-frame and come out with a home-grown 6-shot .38 revolver only a little bigger than the J-frame, but smaller than the K-frame.
In 1973 approximately 5,000 Model 73 round butt, C-frame revolvers were made, and all but 5 (for top S&W executives) were destroyed (according to Roy Jinks).
The above info comes to me from Jim Supica of Old Town Station, who sold one for only $9,850. He states the M-73 is "probably the rarest numbered model revolver."
LIProgun....thanks for that one.
Nuther odd one would be the 17-2 Mercox Dart Projectile Gun. K frame with upper attachment of .530 caliber. Shoots a variety of projectiles ranging from tranquilizer darts to high explosive shaped charge. 25 made and they book for close to seven grand.
I have 1997 Smith catalog that shows the 696 as Frame L-large. and a 2000 version that shows the 696 as Frame L-medium.
Nice to see that I am not alone in my confusion
Sam
Nuther odd one would be the 17-2 Mercox Dart Projectile Gun. K frame with upper attachment of .530 caliber. Shoots a variety of projectiles ranging from tranquilizer darts to high explosive shaped charge. 25 made and they book for close to seven grand.
I have 1997 Smith catalog that shows the 696 as Frame L-large. and a 2000 version that shows the 696 as Frame L-medium.
Nice to see that I am not alone in my confusion
Sam