I recently bought a Escodin Spanish copy of a S&W. its a good looking gun, locks up tight, but the problem is with the firing pin. it extends out through the firing pin hole (not sure of the correct nomenclature) that, when the gun is loaded, prevents the cylinder from closing easily and rotating once it is closed. Any ideas on how to fix this? I also noticed that the firing pin indentation on the primer are pretty deep. Thanks in advance.
S&W Copy .38 Special
- Thread starter RF4guy
- Start date
my advice would be to get rid if it fast.Super Sneaky Steve
New member
I'm not sure what's inside that gun but there should be a spring that prevents the pin from poking out.
In the condition you described it would not be safe to carry or handle that gun. A drop would make it go off.
Take it to a smith who knows how to work on that revolver.
In the condition you described it would not be safe to carry or handle that gun. A drop would make it go off.
Take it to a smith who knows how to work on that revolver.
g.willikers
New member
Not only could dropping it make the gun fire, if you get really unlucky, merely closing the cylinder with enough force might.
But it's fixable.
But do fix it before using it.
To start, try cleaning and lubing the firing pin real good from both front and back, to see if that might free it up.
But it's fixable.
But do fix it before using it.
To start, try cleaning and lubing the firing pin real good from both front and back, to see if that might free it up.
Many of those Spanish copies look like an S&W but the lockwork is more like a Colt, with a rebound lever instead of a rebound slide. I suspect the rebound lever is either missing or not working properly. The gun is unsafe as is, and there is zero chance of getting any parts. Plus, those guns were made of cheap cast iron and have been known to blow up with even moderate loads. They have little or no collector interest and value is negligible.
My strong recommendation is to remove the firing pin altogether and retire the old gun to paperweight status.
Jim
My strong recommendation is to remove the firing pin altogether and retire the old gun to paperweight status.
Jim
g.willikers
New member
Wow, while it's hard to understand why anyone would go to all the trouble to manufacture a gun that was so lousy, maybe there was a hidden reason to do it.
Maybe they were made during the Spanish civil war and sold to the enemy??
Maybe they were made during the Spanish civil war and sold to the enemy??
highpower3006
New member
From what I understand, the reputation of Colts and Smith and Wessons was so high that the Spanish and Belgian second tier manufactures sought to cash in on the desirability of US made handguns.
This is the reason that S&W started putting "Made In U.S.A." on their revolvers around 1920 or so. Not only is the lockwork frequently different, but the metal used to make the copies was almost always not up the standards of the genuine article.
They still sold rather well in Europe though, as they were cheaper and more readily available.
One other thing comes to mind; Smith and Wessons are attractive guns, most of the contemporary European revolvers are, to my eyes, rather homely.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
During the late 19th Century some Belgian gunmakers were making knock off copies of Smith & Wesson revolvers. Some were clearly counterfeits, complete with counterfeit S&W markings and using names like Schofield as part of the chicanery. Clearly trading on S&W's good reputation with cheap, imitation firearms.
S&W has always aggressively pursued patent infringements, right from their beginning in 1857. But international law being what it was at the time there was little S&W could do about it. They did however manage to shut down one Belgian counterfeit operation in the late 19th Century.
You will notice that if you have a thing for old Spanish firearms, this might not be the right place to ask questions.
Yea, the Spanish quality was sometimes lousy. Maybe even often enough to warrant tarring them all with the same brush. But many people, me being one, don't agree with that*.
Google for "The Spanish Pistol Board" and ask there.
W
* I have plenty Spanish handguns and there's only one I won't shoot. On the quality of that one, Hogg states that "these guys went out of business in the middle of a civil war". Enough said.
Yea, the Spanish quality was sometimes lousy. Maybe even often enough to warrant tarring them all with the same brush. But many people, me being one, don't agree with that*.
Google for "The Spanish Pistol Board" and ask there.
W
* I have plenty Spanish handguns and there's only one I won't shoot. On the quality of that one, Hogg states that "these guys went out of business in the middle of a civil war". Enough said.
There were a few Spanish makers who could be called "second tier", but most of those revolvers were of a lot lower quality and were made specifically to sell in the U.S. where proof testing was not required and there was no government quality inspection. Most were made of pot metal. That term, in spite of modern claims otherwise, does not refer to metal melted in a pot but to the metal that cook pots were made from, cheap cast iron. Many makers did case harden soft parts, and the guns will often stand up fairly well as long as the ammunition is low pressure.
Like other material, iron will stand up pretty well to pressure as long as not too much is asked of it (sort of like people, maybe). But I have seen some of those guns that blew up, a couple with unknown loads, one with definitely a standard load and one with a blank.
Most of the makers went out of business during the Spanish Civil War, and when it ended, Franco wanted to restore Spain's arms making industry and reputation; he picked three of the best makers and ordered the rest to cease operations,
S&W did take an interesting step against the Spanish makers and the importers. They trade marked the color case hardening of the trigger and hammer. Note, I said "trademark", not patent. Patents expire; trademarks do not as long as they are defended.
By trademarking the colored parts, S&W put the importers of Spanish revolvers in a bind. If the makers didn't color the parts, the guns wouldn't look like S&W's. If they did, the importers could be sued for trademark infringement and put out of business.
And that is why even today S&W colors their MIM triggers and hammers, even though they are hard all the way through and don't need case hardening.
Jim
Like other material, iron will stand up pretty well to pressure as long as not too much is asked of it (sort of like people, maybe). But I have seen some of those guns that blew up, a couple with unknown loads, one with definitely a standard load and one with a blank.
Most of the makers went out of business during the Spanish Civil War, and when it ended, Franco wanted to restore Spain's arms making industry and reputation; he picked three of the best makers and ordered the rest to cease operations,
S&W did take an interesting step against the Spanish makers and the importers. They trade marked the color case hardening of the trigger and hammer. Note, I said "trademark", not patent. Patents expire; trademarks do not as long as they are defended.
By trademarking the colored parts, S&W put the importers of Spanish revolvers in a bind. If the makers didn't color the parts, the guns wouldn't look like S&W's. If they did, the importers could be sued for trademark infringement and put out of business.
And that is why even today S&W colors their MIM triggers and hammers, even though they are hard all the way through and don't need case hardening.
Jim
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy Again
That is all true. And during the 20s and 30s S&W went as far as to stamp their hammers REG. U.S. PAT. OFF to make it clear that they would defend their rights.
The reason S&W guarded their intellectual property so zealously goes way back to when Daniel Wesson was a young man, working for his brother Edwin. Edwin Wesson's target rifles were famous for their precision and accuracy. Younger brother Daniel worked in Edwin's shop. Edwin had just taken on some sizable debt in order to expand his business, when he died unexpectedly. Young Daniel lost everything he had at the shop, including his personal tools, to Edwin's creditors.
The lesson was burned into Daniel's memory, and when he and Horace Smith started their own revolver company in 1857, Daniel made sure sure he would never be burned that way again. Messrs Smith and Wesson made meticulous patent searches for all their new developments, making sure to either gain control of existing patents, or get around existing patents with clever engineering. And they rigorously policed their patents against patent infringement.
Last edited:
If it's based on the S&W revolver, it's a poor copy. S&W revolvers have a hammer block which prevent the hammer from going forward such that the firing pin would even protrude through the firing pin hole unless the trigger was held back. As such, that Spanish gun is unsafe. I'd disable it like James K suggested.
Mike Irwin
Staff
After World War I Smith & Wesson also began suing companies importing knockoffs into the United States.
It was, in pretty short order, able to completely close the US market to these guns.
I believe it tried it in other countries, as well, but with very limited success.
With the Spanish copies, I have a very simple operating approach...
I won't shoot any of them.
While some of them are quite decent and able to hold up to some shooting, others are simply dreadful.
I've seen a couple with frames so soft that even black powder loads (many of these were really intended only for use with black powder) have caused them to stretch.
I've also seen several that have simply blown out to varying degrees.
It was, in pretty short order, able to completely close the US market to these guns.
I believe it tried it in other countries, as well, but with very limited success.
With the Spanish copies, I have a very simple operating approach...
I won't shoot any of them.
While some of them are quite decent and able to hold up to some shooting, others are simply dreadful.
I've seen a couple with frames so soft that even black powder loads (many of these were really intended only for use with black powder) have caused them to stretch.
I've also seen several that have simply blown out to varying degrees.
PointOneSeven
New member
Might be usable as a single shot for plinking. Worst that happens is it either goes 'bang' or stops going 'bang.' Another vote for a soaking or massive cleaning though. You might get lucky and the pin will pull back in.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Worst that happens is it either goes 'bang' or stops going 'bang.'"
Actually, the worst that happens is the cylinder disintegrates, lodging a nice, big chunk of iron in a soft, squishy body part.
Actually, the worst that happens is the cylinder disintegrates, lodging a nice, big chunk of iron in a soft, squishy body part.
What Mike said.
Get rid of it, make it a paper weight, anchor for a small boat, sinker for a fishing line, or.....well, you get the idea.
Last winter a guy wanted to trade me a "Smith" 38 spl for something I had.
I wanted to see it and imagine my dissapointment when he showed by a spanish thingy with Smith grips.
Some jerk ground the grips to fit the frame too!
Get rid of it, make it a paper weight, anchor for a small boat, sinker for a fishing line, or.....well, you get the idea.
Last winter a guy wanted to trade me a "Smith" 38 spl for something I had.
I wanted to see it and imagine my dissapointment when he showed by a spanish thingy with Smith grips.
Some jerk ground the grips to fit the frame too!
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Incidentally, not too long ago I was at a gunshow and saw what I thought at first was a K frame Smith chambered for 32-20. The price was very reasonable. As I examined it I realized I did not see the S&W logo stamped on it anywhere. I turned it over, and stamped on the frame between the trigger guard and grip it said Made in Spain. I put it right back, not the slightest bit interested.