Hi. I stumbled on one of these locally for $400. I didn't know anything about them, but I thought it was very cool in an old school way. I have read up on them and am thinking of going to get it. Is there anything I should be on the lookout for? This is a stainless version I think. As I said I only stumbled on it and didn't have my glasses. I've never given old Smith Autos much thought, but this one seems cool. I certainly don't need it, but kinda want it. Thanks.
S&W 459?
- Thread starter baddarryl
- Start date
459 should be blued steel slide over black anodized aluminum frame, or nickel plated.
559 would be all carbon steel, in blue or nickel.
659 would be all stainless.
I had a 539, and could not be bothered to deal with the DA/SA pull; really long reach to the trigger in DA mode, and too short in SA. Beautiful, well-made gun.
559 would be all carbon steel, in blue or nickel.
659 would be all stainless.
I had a 539, and could not be bothered to deal with the DA/SA pull; really long reach to the trigger in DA mode, and too short in SA. Beautiful, well-made gun.
Onward Allusion
New member
Man, I hope you purchased it. $400 is a good price for a 459. I actually like the 2nd Gen's clean lines over the tank-like build of the 3rd Gens.
I may go get it tomorrow. I'd like to know more about them.
I have the 659, if 459 is identical design except blue steel slide and aluminum frame, I have to say my 659 is not very reliable out of the box.
I had to first sent back and they modified the extractor. That improved the ejection problem but still did not fix it. It still not completely reliable with the weaker reloads.
I had to work on it myself, I further modified the extractor, polish the ejector port in order to completely eliminate the ejection problem(stovepiping). I ended up polishing the feed ramp and chamber to make the 659 completely reliable.
I am told by people here the newer semi auto pistols are different world in reliability, let's just hope so because ALL my three semi auto I bought in the 80s were not reliable out of the box. I have Colt Gold Cup and Walther PPKS, both were NOT reliable right out of the box. I had to perform gunsmithing on both the make them reliable.
Maybe I was unlucky OR maybe I just refuse to accept a gun is only reliable with certain brand of ammo. Also, I don't buy into "break in" of the gun that the first 50 rounds doesn't count. If it jam, that just means it doesn't have margin of error.
I had to first sent back and they modified the extractor. That improved the ejection problem but still did not fix it. It still not completely reliable with the weaker reloads.
I had to work on it myself, I further modified the extractor, polish the ejector port in order to completely eliminate the ejection problem(stovepiping). I ended up polishing the feed ramp and chamber to make the 659 completely reliable.
I am told by people here the newer semi auto pistols are different world in reliability, let's just hope so because ALL my three semi auto I bought in the 80s were not reliable out of the box. I have Colt Gold Cup and Walther PPKS, both were NOT reliable right out of the box. I had to perform gunsmithing on both the make them reliable.
Maybe I was unlucky OR maybe I just refuse to accept a gun is only reliable with certain brand of ammo. Also, I don't buy into "break in" of the gun that the first 50 rounds doesn't count. If it jam, that just means it doesn't have margin of error.
Frankly I don't regard the 459 as having been particularly reliable. Just sayin, that it carried like a brick and the terrible single action functioning of that pistol wasn't what I would regard as wonderful. But back when it came out it was a tactical go to pistol. Ha, ha!
We were sort of stupid.
We were sort of stupid.
Time changed, I won't say we were stupid.
Hey, my other two I bought in that era, one is the James Bond's gun, the other is the famous 1911, they were no better. They ALL needed to be fixed. Particular the Gold Cup, it was expensive at the time.
I am buying a Glock this week, I have to see what is so great about it. People said they never fail. I have to see whether the new generation is really that much better in reliability.
$400, I won't buy the 459 nor the 659 where you can get a brand new M&P or Glock for $459 MSRP. I am not saying the new one is definitely better, but why buy something from yesterdecade for almost the same price as the new one. It's one thing like me that already own it and made reliable already. It's another thing to buy a USED one almost the same price as a new one today. I'd take my chance on the new one.
Another thing that might be more important, you don't know how many rounds the former owner shot through the gun already. People all said you can put 10K, 20K rounds through a gun and it's ok. That is not my experience. I broke two guns, one is the Ruger Mark II bull barrel .22LR that was a target gun. The Baretta 950, a small 25ACP. I put about 6000 round on the Mark II, the main spring housing broke. More importantly, it SHOT LOOSE. The grouping started to get bigger before it mainspring housing broke. I put about 2000 rounds through the little Berreta, also the main spring broke. The aluminum frame kind of worn out also.
Of cause you can always replace parts and make the gun last longer, BUT can you guaranty it's not going to break at the time you really depends on it after a few thousand rounds through it? I depends on my 659 for home defense, I put about 1000 rounds total, A few hundred rounds after I fixed it to make sure it's absolutely reliable. I am NOT shooting it anymore when the gun is still new.
I shot much more round on the gun I don't depend my life on, I shot with my Gold Cup for target as it's accurate. The 659 is NO WHERE consider accurate.
Hey, my other two I bought in that era, one is the James Bond's gun, the other is the famous 1911, they were no better. They ALL needed to be fixed. Particular the Gold Cup, it was expensive at the time.
I am buying a Glock this week, I have to see what is so great about it. People said they never fail. I have to see whether the new generation is really that much better in reliability.
$400, I won't buy the 459 nor the 659 where you can get a brand new M&P or Glock for $459 MSRP. I am not saying the new one is definitely better, but why buy something from yesterdecade for almost the same price as the new one. It's one thing like me that already own it and made reliable already. It's another thing to buy a USED one almost the same price as a new one today. I'd take my chance on the new one.
Another thing that might be more important, you don't know how many rounds the former owner shot through the gun already. People all said you can put 10K, 20K rounds through a gun and it's ok. That is not my experience. I broke two guns, one is the Ruger Mark II bull barrel .22LR that was a target gun. The Baretta 950, a small 25ACP. I put about 6000 round on the Mark II, the main spring housing broke. More importantly, it SHOT LOOSE. The grouping started to get bigger before it mainspring housing broke. I put about 2000 rounds through the little Berreta, also the main spring broke. The aluminum frame kind of worn out also.
Of cause you can always replace parts and make the gun last longer, BUT can you guaranty it's not going to break at the time you really depends on it after a few thousand rounds through it? I depends on my 659 for home defense, I put about 1000 rounds total, A few hundred rounds after I fixed it to make sure it's absolutely reliable. I am NOT shooting it anymore when the gun is still new.
I shot much more round on the gun I don't depend my life on, I shot with my Gold Cup for target as it's accurate. The 659 is NO WHERE consider accurate.
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Is there anything like classic collector value in guns? If so, then I have to take what I said back. It's like those classic 60's Ford Mustangs or the Dodge Challengers, they worth a lot of money even though you can find some new SUV or 4dr sedans run circles around them and still cost much cheaper new.
Ha ha, imagine you driving a mean looking classic hot rod and a soccer mom runs circles around you with her new SUV or 4dr. sedan, both from stoplight to stoplight and hang corners.
Ha ha, imagine you driving a mean looking classic hot rod and a soccer mom runs circles around you with her new SUV or 4dr. sedan, both from stoplight to stoplight and hang corners.
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Ignition Override
New member
Just move down on this single page....For the benefit of those who want to immed. review/learn how the 459 fits into the 3rd. Gen family schematic.
Nice color chart created by LuckyGunner staff. Well done!
Two months ago I bought both a 908 and 6904. Both exhibit minimal wear, as is often the case right now, and aren't at all likely to "break".
If a 659 shows only honest wear and has a bright bore, I would not hesitate to buy another S&W: "built like a tank".
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Onward Allusion
New member
459 is 2nd Gen. Sleeker design but not as reliable as 3rd Gen out of the box.
Get a new one, the latest and greatest. Why even look back. That's OOOOOOLLLLLDDDD!!!
I do not trust aluminum alloy frame. They are brittle, they crack on stress. They don't wear well. I read about the Sig P226 frame rail cracked in the military qualify testing after a few thousand rounds. I believe it. Polymer is so much superior in durability and longevity.
Look at Tesla SUV in the news, it splitted in half in the accident on the freeway. I bet it it were steel, the body would just collapsed instead of split at the driver's compartment. BTW, the driver died. Aluminum alloy is just brittle, they cannot be bent.
I do not trust aluminum alloy frame. They are brittle, they crack on stress. They don't wear well. I read about the Sig P226 frame rail cracked in the military qualify testing after a few thousand rounds. I believe it. Polymer is so much superior in durability and longevity.
Look at Tesla SUV in the news, it splitted in half in the accident on the freeway. I bet it it were steel, the body would just collapsed instead of split at the driver's compartment. BTW, the driver died. Aluminum alloy is just brittle, they cannot be bent.
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"They are brittle, they crack on stress. They don't wear well." (Alan0354)
I think while there is some justification for your fears about aluminum frames wearing prematurely, much of your concerns may be exaggerated, especially on a quality built weapon. By the time you put enough ammo through one to wear it out, the cost of ammo would far exceed a new weapon.
Sigs, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, etc., even on older models, for the most part, made quality weapons. Lots of them in used / decent shape can (or could, pre pandemic), be found at reasonable prices. I have my Gramps old 39-2 S&W 9mm, and its aluminum frame has held up over the years since I got it. No issues. But I'm not constantly putting +P+ ammo through it either.
Are steel frames stronger than aluminum? Absolutely. Polymer... you may be right on that one. It's pretty durable stuff.
I think while there is some justification for your fears about aluminum frames wearing prematurely, much of your concerns may be exaggerated, especially on a quality built weapon. By the time you put enough ammo through one to wear it out, the cost of ammo would far exceed a new weapon.
Sigs, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, etc., even on older models, for the most part, made quality weapons. Lots of them in used / decent shape can (or could, pre pandemic), be found at reasonable prices. I have my Gramps old 39-2 S&W 9mm, and its aluminum frame has held up over the years since I got it. No issues. But I'm not constantly putting +P+ ammo through it either.
Are steel frames stronger than aluminum? Absolutely. Polymer... you may be right on that one. It's pretty durable stuff.
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I shot the heck out of a budget 915 with aluminum frame and sold it working fine for more than I paid 25 years later. The S&W 3rd generation guns are super reliable. Mine just wasn't all that accurate. Maybe 2 inches at 7 yards and 4 to 5 reliably at 25 yards. Once I got my aluminum frame CZ P01 I just didn't feel like I needed the smith anymore. CZ pistols just flat out shoot great! One day I'll pick up an all steel 659 with the adjustable sights from someone that would rather have a GLOCK. Yuk! I do like all steel guns
Polymer are scary strong and durable. I told this one time already here. You know how they put tampering cap on liquor bottle to prevent stealing. One time, I bought one and they forgot to take the cap off. It was "plastic", how hard can it be to take it out myself, too lazy to go back. I have a workshop with tools vise and everything at home. How hard can it be to break it off? Was I wrong.
I clamped it on a huge vise, use a 5 lbs slug hammer, pounded on it, chissel, screw driver. I hit it so hard it broke the plastic cap of the bottle INSIDE the cap. That's how flexible the polymer cap, it gave in, crushed the bottle cap, and bounced right back.
Long story short, I went back to the store red faced and ask for exchange to another bottle......The cap was still on that stupid bottle. I destroyed the bottle and all, I did not manage to remove the cap.
You think if the cap is made of aluminum alloy, I won't be able to crack it in one minute? I bet you two strike of the 5 lbs hammer, it'd break into pieces and I would enjoy the drink already.
That stupid polymer just don't break, no where to stick a screw driver or anything in to ply, to chissel or anything. It went back to the store with just a few marks on it. I bet they can still open the cap with the key and reuse it.
I clamped it on a huge vise, use a 5 lbs slug hammer, pounded on it, chissel, screw driver. I hit it so hard it broke the plastic cap of the bottle INSIDE the cap. That's how flexible the polymer cap, it gave in, crushed the bottle cap, and bounced right back.
Long story short, I went back to the store red faced and ask for exchange to another bottle......The cap was still on that stupid bottle. I destroyed the bottle and all, I did not manage to remove the cap.
You think if the cap is made of aluminum alloy, I won't be able to crack it in one minute? I bet you two strike of the 5 lbs hammer, it'd break into pieces and I would enjoy the drink already.
That stupid polymer just don't break, no where to stick a screw driver or anything in to ply, to chissel or anything. It went back to the store with just a few marks on it. I bet they can still open the cap with the key and reuse it.
Ha ha, are you talking about me?I shot the heck out of a budget 915 with aluminum frame and sold it working fine for more than I paid 25 years later. The S&W 3rd generation guns are super reliable. Mine just wasn't all that accurate. Maybe 2 inches at 7 yards and 4 to 5 reliably at 25 yards. Once I got my aluminum frame CZ P01 I just didn't feel like I needed the smith anymore. CZ pistols just flat out shoot great! One day I'll pick up an all steel 659 with the adjustable sights from someone that would rather have a GLOCK. Yuk! I do like all steel guns
No I won't sell mine, I worked on my 659 to make it super reliable, have less than 1000 rounds, still brand spanking new. I keep it for my main self defense gun at home. I legally have two 14 rounds mag and a 20 rounds mag. It's going no where.
I am thinking about another 9mm again now that I bought the Glock 26. I am starting to tell my big boss how scary Kalifornia is and how much the new generation polymer guns are better than those we have. I am trying to build up the idea I want one more!!!
.....They need a devil smilie here!!!I am eyeing on the S&W M&P9 Shield, one size smaller than the Glock 26, lighter than my Walther PPKS with 9mm. Can't believe it, that little James Bond gun is 23.5oz!!! Heavier than the Glock 26 (19.4oz) that can have 11rds and 9mm.
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