S&W 3913 magazine safety disabled

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4040peters

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I just purchased a S&W 3913NL in really nice condition to use as a CCW. Upon arrival I preformed visual, safety, and function checks and discovered that the magazine safety did not work (it would have fired with the magazine removed). Disassembling the handgun I inspected, cleaned ,and lubed every piece and found that several (I won't say which) were missing. This was done deliberately. I have since replaced the missing parts and returned handgun to proper function. I think it is a dangerous practice to change or disable any safety feature. Some moron who thinks they know Smith & Wesson autos might remove the magazine and pull the trigger. . .
 
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Is there anyone who pulls the trigger on some guns, but not others, based on the knowledge of which guns came from the factory with mag disconnects and which didn't?
 
I can appreciate your opinion, and here's mine.

I and many others don't consider it a safety. It's a feature some guns have and some guns don't. Some of mine have it and some don't.

I call it a magazine disconnect.

Which is the safer feature, one that disables the gun if the magazine is removed, or a gun that allows ammunition to be loaded singly if there's an issue with the magazine? The jury's been out on that for awhile.
 
2ndsojourn said:
I and many others don't consider it a safety... I call it a magazine disconnect.
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+1. I regard a mag disconnect primarily as a device that allows safer and more convenient fully-assembled storage in conjunction with one or more additional security devices. IMHO its only reasonable use as a "safety" is as an absolute last-ditch option in the event of imminent forcible disarmament by a BG, to prevent one from being shot with one's own gun, and even this only works if the BG is unable or doesn't think to retrieve the dropped magazine.

A mag disconnect should NEVER be regarded as a substitute for safe gun handling. It is colossally stupid to intentionally pull the trigger of ANY gun while counting on ANY mechanical safety device to prevent it from firing.
 
I have since replaced the missing parts and returned handgun to proper function. I think it is a dangerous practice to change or disable any safety feature. Some moron who thinks they know Smith & Wesson autos might remove the magazine and pull the trigger. . .
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-Treat every firearm as if it's loaded. ...
-Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy. ...
-Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it. ...
-Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.

A magazine disconnect is not a substitute for proper gun handling.
 
The seller should have notified you of the mag disconnect being removed, and sold the parts with the pistol. Quite irresponsible of him not to.

However, as far as mag disconnects go, I'm of the opinion that they can breed a dangerous complacency in firearm handling. I really do consider mag disconnects unsafe, not in some outlandish SD situation where for some odd reason you might need to fire the gun without the magazine, I don't buy that, but any gun that requires a magazine to be inserted during dry fire practice greatly increases the chance of a negligent discharge.
 
I think it is a dangerous practice to change or disable any safety feature. Some moron who thinks they know Smith & Wesson autos might remove the magazine and pull the trigger. . .
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I agree 100% with the above statement. Checking to see if the mag disconnect is intact on that 3913, which is intended as a CCW is part of the function testing of a used gun. If that part of the gun was tampered with, what else was done to this gun? Even if additional work was done properly, do I want to carry an autopistol that is not in original fuctional condition? Well, I do not, so it's my prerogative to verify that my handgun intended for EDC is in safe original operating condition, since I'm ultimately responsible for my own handgun safety.

I did the same function check on my "LN" Browning Hi-Power before I bought it to verify that the mag disconnect in this gun was still functional, and this gun is still in 100% original condition and it works fine that way.
 
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QUOTE: Checking to see if the mag disconnect is intact on that 3913 is part of the function testing of a used gun.

This is true but the point being made by others is that the procedure can be done safely by conforming to the basic rules of handling a gun safely. Just because a "moron" behaves dangerously doesn't (shouldn't) mean that the rest of us can't defeat a magazine disconnect for our own reasons.
 
I agree 100% with the above statement. Checking to see if the mag disconnect is intact on that 3913 is part of the function testing of a used gun. If that part of the gun was tampered with, what else was done to this gun? Even if additional work was done properly, do I want to carry an autopistol that is not in original fuctional condition? It's my prerogative to verify that my handgun intended for EDC is in safe original operating condition, since I'm ultimately responsible for my own handgun safety.

I did the same function check on my "LN" Browning Hi-Power before I bought it to verify that the mag disconnect in this gun was still functional, and this gun is still in 100% original condition and it works fine that way.
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As long as you want a less than optimal trigger and don't mind that the mags will not drop free.

Removing a mag disconnect does not equal tampering with a pistol IMHO. Many people carry guns everyday that are not in original function condition. You choose not to and that is OK but lets not act as if that is some sort of universal principle.
 
As long as you want a less than optimal trigger and don't mind that the mags will not drop free.

Removing a mag disconnect does not equal tampering with a pistol IMHO. Many people carry guns everyday that are not in original function condition. You choose not to and that is OK but lets not act as if that is some sort of universal principle.
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Hey Bud;

My BHP is still in production, aftermarket upgrade parts are readily available, and in the unlikely event I choose to have it modified I know who to take it to. However, I hit my targets very nicely with my BHP with the stock sights & stock S/A trigger. The mags drop free with the mag disconnect intact! The gun is totally accurate & reliable as is!

However, the OP's 3rd Gen S&W has been out of production for over10 years. Smith & Wesson has discontinued providing factory service and parts support for these guns, so spare parts including magazines will be harder to get in the future. So if that were my gun I would want to do a complete detail strip of it to verify that the internals are intact with no worn parts and I'd want anything worn repaired or replaced so it's in original condition to keep it running properly, and to maintain its potential value in the collectors market.

But it's his business to do with his gun as he sees fit, mine with mine, yours with yours, etc., etc.
 
Way back in the 1980s and 1990s several law enforcement agencies debated the need of the magazine safety. Some liked them because an officer in a fight over his weapon could eject the magazine and not be shot with his own pistol. Some like the idea of disabling the safety so the officer could fire the chambered round if needed while doing a tactical reload. To me it was 6 of one half dozen of another. I never heard of an officer who needed the weapon to function either way. I preferred my duty weapon safeties to function as designed by the factory.
 
I know that I opened a can of worms but I'm not arguing the merits of magazine disconnects. It comes down to personal preference whether own a handgun with or without a magazine disconnect. What I'm really concerned with is that I was able to purchase a handgun that was modified to function different then the factory intended. We should be able to modify our firearms the way we wish but do we also have a responsibility to maintain proper function especially if we are to lend or sell them.

As for magazine drops, there was a good amount of ejection force even without the magazine disconnect in place. I believe most of the magazine ejection force comes from the magazine spring itself through the follower.

Even though Smith & Wesson no longer supports 3rd generation autos, I found every part I needed plus spares.

Every firearm is loaded all the time. Handle accordingly.
 
4040peters said:
As for magazine drops, there was a good amount of ejection force even without the magazine disconnect in place. I believe most of the magazine ejection force comes from the magazine spring itself through the follower.
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I believe that WVsig's comment was specific to the BHP, or at least that's how I interpreted it.

The BHP mag disconnect works through the trigger and physically drags against the front of magazine. This causes some well-known problems with trigger pull and mag ejection force.

You are correct about mag ejection force in a metal-frame S&W. The mag disconnect works by pushing the trigger drawbar out of engagement with the sear when the mag is out; the system does not actually touch the magazine, so it has very little influence on mag ejection force. The mag disconnect spring may help the mag along to a very minor extent by pushing down on the drawbar during ejection, but the spring is so much weaker than the mag spring that I seriously doubt most shooters would ever notice any difference. Likewise, I doubt that mag disconnect plunger drag would noticeably affect the trigger pull, as the plunger is made from very slippery plastic.
 
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A magazine disconnect does not replace safe gunhandling. No mechanical safety does.

I normally remove magazine disconnects, as i personally detest them. However, i do keep the parts, and should i sell one, i put it back, so that the new owner can make their own choice, as i did.
 
My BHP is still in production, aftermarket upgrade parts are readily available, and in the unlikely event I choose to have it modified I know who to take it to. However, I hit my targets very nicely with my BHP with the stock sights & stock S/A trigger. The mags drop free with the mag disconnect intact! The gun is totally accurate & reliable as is!

However, the OP's 3rd Gen S&W has been out of production for over 10 years. Smith & Wesson has discontinued providing factory service and parts support for these guns, so spare parts including magazines will be harder to get in the future. So if that were my gun I would want to do a complete detail strip of it to verify that the internals are intact with no worn parts and I'd want anything worn repaired or replaced so it's in original condition to keep it running properly, and to maintain its potential value in the collectors market.

But it's his business to do with his gun as he sees fit, mine with mine, yours with yours, etc., etc.
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Man I really enjoy your posts they really show a singular world view when it comes to firearms. :rolleyes:

Glad to hear you like your stock BHP. If the trigger stock is good then count yourself lucky. This is not often the case. Also if your mags drop free and they are not the mousetrap design you are doubly lucky... Go buy a lottery ticket!

I would still bet that your trigger would be better with the mag disconnect removed. It is almost universally understood that the BHP mag disconnect adds friction and grit to the trigger. Removing it does not make it lighter but it makes it smoother 99% of the time. YMMV

As for the 3rd gen Smith they are no longer supported by S&W but so many of them have been produced over the years that parts are still readily available in multiple places. Mags for some models are harder to come by but with a little patient they can also be found.

It me it makes sense to strip and test any used firearm. The "need" to replace a missing mag disconnect is not universally and must do. For some it would be a bonus. As for collector value if you are going to shoot the gun and carry the gun down the road it will have very little collector value. Remember these guns were the Glocks of their day. They were the dominate LEO gun and tons of them were made carried on duty and the dumped back into the market as LEO trade ins. They have little to no collector value. People who talk about collector value on " working" guns are misinformed IMHO. You would be lucky to beat inflation with a Gen 3 S&W.

In the end the OP put his/her gun back into a condition that they are comfortable with and that is what matters in this case. I think that this thread does illustrate once again that not everyone views simple modifications to handguns the same.
 
I believe most of the magazine ejection force comes from the magazine spring itself through the follower.
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If the magazine is empty, the spring isn't pushing against anything that would help it eject, since that would require the follower to come out of the magazine
 
Man I really enjoy your posts they really show a singular world view when it comes to firearms.
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Thanks Man, I Accept Your Complement!

You really should climb down off the "every gun you own has to be modified" high horse, if I'm buying a gun & I don't like the sights & I don't like the trigger, I can just walk away. I have had a few guns worked on by the few good gunsmiths that I know; who are still in the business, you have to love it to make a living at it!. I'm down to two, and the best one is getting ready to retire (BTW, this guy has 45 years experience as a Master Gunsmith, and he told me to leave my Browning Hi-Power in its new original condition). I've boogered a few myself, and I've bought a few used ones that were screwed up by previous owners. OK, go ride your horse!
 
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