S/W 19 vs 13 for CCW

B

Blue Duck357

New member
As much as I love my 3" 65, it's getting a tad loose and on it's second rebuild already. Considering retiring it some time in the near future for a 2.5" barrel 19 or a 3" 13.

Things I'm looking at so far:

Sights: I guess are the biggest issue, 13's fixed sight less likely to be knocked out of whack and less snagging trouble on the draw. 19's adjustable sights can easily be perfectly regulated to my issue load. (issue round may change on occasion so I would not want to be doing any filing or bending to get a 13's sights just right.) While I realize in a real SD situation being a couple inches off at 15 yards is no big deal, but gotta admit it gives me a bit more confidense at tha range to know a gun hits exactly where I aimed it.

Ejector rod length: 3" 13 offers full length ejection, good for speed. 2 1/2" 19 doesn't give a full stroke but then again much harder to get a case stuck under the star if you fumble the dump just a bit.

Barrel length: Can't imagine 1/2" being that much velocity difference personally but chime up if you disagree. Extra 1/2" of sight radius is nice, but shooting a 2 1/2" 66 I was getting the same size groups as with my tuned 3" 65, and it felt easier to do (guessing this is because of the better sights).

Any thoughts or other issues appreciated,

PS I know they made several runs of 3" 66's and even a few 3" 19's but I know where I can get either of the above choices for $300 or less so thats really what I'm looking at.

Best, Blueduck
 
The ejector rod really isn't an issue if you use the "vertical muzzle and slap the hell out of the ejector rod" method of ejecting cases.

The half-inch of muzzle is, to me, a non player.

The sights issue really isn't that big of an issue for me, either.

At typical handgun combat ranges you're going to be point shooting most likely anyways.

If you go with an adjustable sight gun, practice point shooting, sighting along the side of the barrel, etc.

If you go with a fixed sight gun, practice point shooting, sighting along the side of the barrel, etc.
 
Forget point shooting USE THE FRONT SIGHT and let rear sight blur, you cant have three points in focus in an optical plane! You CAN adjust front sight to hit by bending, grinding or welding and filing rear notch. In other words a good smith Can sight in your fixed sights, they will even turn barrel if needs be. This said I love the old model 65's and 13 but I think a good model 19 or 66 2.5" is the way to go for all around use,one of my favorites is Mod 19-2 nickle 2.5" smoothed up with Secret Service or Spegal Boot grips.:D
 
Agree with Mike....mostly.

I advocate practicing sighted shooting.
And point shooting.
If you do it enough so the sights align really fast, you will find that you ARE point shooting....just that you are doin it with the sights aligned.

I have never tried to FOCUS on front, rear and target. Works for me to focus on target with front in the right relative place and equal light around it. ISU, NRA....pistol and rifle.

Adjust fixed sight for ammo, as noted by Blue Duck, then limits you to that ammo.

After all that verbage...
I confidently carry I, J, K, L and N frames from 2" through 6" with fixed and adjustable sights.

Sam
 
I'm not as seasoned as some of you, but taught like CR Sam, with a little Mike Irwin thrown in.

Adjust gun to fit hand,(grips)
Learn how to properly hold the wheel gun
Front sight press (regardless if fixed or adj) Like Sam said you get fast enough, its like point shooting.
Test ammo , stick with what works

Gunsmith whom instructs (still fusses at me) had me shoot without front sights a model 10 . Might get damaged sights, may bust them off, blood in your eyes and you can't see them...now whatcha gonna do?"

As Irwin said , sight along side of bbl.
Amazing tho what you can do without sights...really.

Its CRSam's fault, I been shooting the 19 with 2.5" bbl more of late...dang thing is addictive
 
C.R. right on as usual regarding sights and loads. Lots of guys in office who had filed there front sights down a bit for our once standard 147 grain+P+ ammo were looking for ways to add metal once we went to 125 grain +P loads. Harder to put metal on with file than take it off ;)

As for point/versus sighted fire I'm personally no Jerry Miculek or Bob Munden. During qulification I normally point shoot at 3 yards, flash front sight at 7, flash front and rear 10-15. Just what works out best for me.

As noted I guess the sights are really the main issue as S/W guro Mike pointed out if I reload right ejector length shouldn't play a role anyway.

About five years ago when I went through this process to pick my carry gun I tried both types and went with the fixed on both my 6 shot and 5 shooters. Wonder if the last several years wear on the eyes are why I'm suddenly a bit more impressed with the more visible but more snagable/less durable adjustable sights :confused:

Thanks for the responses!
 
Eyes and sights

I can appreciate that, having to use bifocals for a few years now. Never learned anything but "regular" sights. No nightsights, no dots, only fancy was a red ramp, or white paint.

I don't want to get dependent, but I did get "distracted" by some of the 'fancy' stuff out there. In your work, I'd use what you are the best with, and most comfortable.

"It ain't cheatin' if it works--Its ingenuity"
 
Against the flow: rebuild the M65.
M13 with APCoogan finish in satin nickel.
 
A friend and I just put the chrono on his 3in gp100 and my 2.5in mdl66, virtually no difference, like mike said it' a non issue. I don't know why but I prefer the 2.5, just seems right to me...tom
 
Guys, I didn't mean skip using the sights altogether.

Practice point shooting and alternate sighting methods IN CONJUNCTION WITH your regular "over the sights" shooting.

Also practice shooting from positions where use of the sights is impossible, such as high and low retention.
 
Duck,

Meant to ask...

Your 65... Have you had the crane stretched during the rebuilds?

Twice is pretty much the maximum for having the crane stretched.
 
Hey Mike,

First rebuild was before my possesion, previous owner just noted it had gotten loose and had sent it in to S/W for a total rebuild. When I sent it in they definitly stretched the crane. So were looking at either one or two, most likely two.

Appreciate the info on the crane, makes sence but never thought of that. May have have saved me some money down the road.

Best,

Blueduck
 
Merry Christmas To Every One; And May The Season
Be Filled With Joy!:D

Duck Man, I've always favored adjustable sighted
revolver's; yes, even on a CCW piece. And in the likes of
the 2.5" barrel Smith & Wesson model 19/66*; or even
the same barrel length in Colt's Python*.

The S&W model 13/65 are fine weapons for CCW issues;
and I would not turn one down!:cool: :D :) However, as
I said given the choice I most likely would opt for a model
19 or 66.

*these weapons were strictly holster oriented, and not
made for "Mexican" carry IWB!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
I am sure that either would work. The K-frame revolver is an excellent CCW platform with enough options to satisfy any requirement you might have for your personal firearm.

My preference is for a 2 1/2 - 3" barrel with fixed sights. Get a good load that shoots to POA at self-defense distances and you will have a dependable firearm.
 
I have quite a few revolvers in 38 and 38/357. I probably shoot my 686+ 3" and model 19 4" most accurately, but I find them not as easy to carry for ccw. Next yr I'll be putting one semi auto (P239/40) and one revolver on my ccw. So, last month I took my possibilities to the range for comparison shooting.
The order lists my most accurate to least accurate, at least on this one occasion using the same factory ammo:
tie: Colt DS, S&W 640-1, S&W model 13, 3"PC
second: S&W model 12 2"
third: S&W model 15 2"
fourth: S&W model 38
fifth: Colt Lawman Mk V (sold thereafter)
These were all fired double action, as required for a revolver in our county for qualification.
I was really surprised by the accuracy of my 640-1 -- I had just installed Wolff springs.
I was disappointed that my model 13 PC with a butter smooth trigger did not shoot for me any better than a 2 1/8" snubby.
I decided to enhance my Colt Det Sp even more by sending it to Cylinder & Slide for a super action job. This should be the one going on my permit. It's such a classic firearm, '74 vintage with Hogue fancy wood grips.
And back to your decision, for 3 years I looked for a 2 1/2" model 19, but finally settled on the 4 inch from a friend. If I had the snubby model 19 and my model 13 PC, I would use whichever I shot most accurately in double action -- the most likely mode of operation for someone with ccw and a need to use the firearm. Also my model 13 has a bobbed hammer, and I prefer using a thumb break holster -- Galco paddle for the Sig P239 and a Bianchi size 1 belt holster for the Colt DS.
 
Thanks again for all input.

Brought home a 90% 2 1/2" Model 19-3 this afternoon for $300 even, pretty good deal for the area. Makes a nice companion to my 4"19 and even the 4" 18 even fits in there somewhere ;)
 
You did fine on the deal. I like adjustable sights when I can have them. I get a better sight picture with the S&W adjustables than with their fixed sight guns. That is solely a personal preference, but I do like to be able to put the load on the money at 25 yards.
 
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