S&W 10-6 cylinder lockup question

[lockedcj7]

I own a few, but I'm actually not very familiar with the internal workings of S&W revolvers. I have a noob type question. I read the revolver checkout and did a search and didn't come up with an answer.

I just acquired a 10-6 and the cylinder can be turned clockwise, by hand, when the cylinder is closed. Is this normal or is it a fairly common problem with an obvious solution? It cannot be turned when the gun is dry-fired and the trigger held to the rear. Everything else appears normal.

I have three other Smith and Wesson revolvers and none of them can be turned by hand like that.

 

[UncleEd]

Check to see if the cylinder bolt/stop/thingy that
comes out of the bottom of the frame is in a
cylinder stop/notch when trigger is forward.

If not, you'll need someone familiar with the
internals of a S&W to open it up and see why
the bolt/stop/thingy isn't rising in place.

I have my suspicions but it's better to just
let someone who knows Smiths do the
on-hand diagnostic.

 

[SaxonPig]

The bolt stop is in the frame at the bottom of the cylinder window. It is spring loaded. Open the cylinder to make sure A: the bolt stop is present and B: it is in the up position. If missing or stuck in the dressed position there's your problem. Also not impossible the bolt stop is worn and no longer engages the bolt stop notches in the cylinder.

 

[MrBorland]

I just acquired a 10-6 and the cylinder can be turned clockwise, by hand, when the cylinder is closed.

"Clockwise", from the shooter's point of view? The hand pushes the cylinder CCW via a ratchet mechanism, so if it's entirely free to turn clockwise, say a whole turn, either both the hand and the stop bolt aren't engaging (or perhaps the cylinder's not entirely closed?).

If it spins clockwise just a few degrees until it locks, I'd say it's normal, since if the cylinder's closed midway between blot stop slots and pawls on the ratchet, the cylinder can be rotated clockwise a few degrees to engage the bolt and hand.

 

[lockedcj7]

I cleaned and inspected and there is nothing obviously broken or missing. The bolt stop coming up out of the frame is present and side of it (where it should catch the corresponding notch in the cylinder) looks very slightly rounded off.

I carefully took off the side plate and did not see anything missing or broken internally. Compared to my 642, the cylinder stop doesn't protrude up as far, the edge isn't as sharp and the difference between the bottom of each cylinder notch and the dished out portion is not as deep.

It looks like there just isn't as much metal-metal contact as there could be and it's allowing the cylinder to over-ride the cylinder stop and push it down. When the trigger is held back, the top of the trigger cams it into place and it locks as it should.

In the diagram shown here, they are calling it the "cylinder bolt" assembly. The cylinder bolt must be the portion that sticks up through the frame and into the cylinder notches.

 

[UncleEd]

Just to be sure about wear or tear on the cylinder
or bolt itself, spray in a good amount of Gun Scrubber
around the spring for the cylinder bolt/stop/thingy
(some get all perturbed if the Colt or other
nomenclature isn't used ).

This may free up a sticky bolt/spring area and all
will be well. If not, then yes, you may need a
new bolt as the one you've got may have been
"polished" too much and is now too small.

 

[arquebus357]

In the diagram shown here, they are calling it the "cylinder bolt" assembly. The cylinder bolt must be the portion that sticks up through the frame and into the cylinder notches.

"They" have labeled that part wrong. S&W calls that part a CYLINDER STOP. The only part called a "BOLT" in these revolvers is the slide thing that the thumb piece activates in order to rotate the cylinder out of the frame for loading/unloading.

Wickipedia ... DUH

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Just to be a nit picker, that Wikipedia illustration is incorrect.

Most revolver manufacturers call the part that locks the cylinder in battery the Bolt however S&W has always called it the Cylinder Stop. And the part that Wikipedia labels the trigger return slide is properly called the Rebound Slide.

Here is an official cutaway drawing from the 1940s labeling all the parts in a S&W revolver.

When the cylinder is first closed, it is normal for the cylinder to be able to be manually rotated in either direction if the gun was not closed so that the cylinder stop popped up into a locking slot on the cylinder. The hand is not extended at this time, and will not interfere with the cylinder rotating. The cylinder will be free to rotate until the cylinder stop pops up into one of its locking slots. For this reason, I have developed the habit of always pushing up with my thumb as I close the cylinder on a Smith, so the cylinder will rotate to a position to allow the cylinder stop to pop up and lock the cylinder in battery.

Once the cylinder has been put into battery, it should be locked in place, either with the hammer down or back at full cock. A few thousandths of rotation is normal because of slop of the cylinder stop in its locking slot, but other than that, the cylinder should be locked in postition.

Regarding your Model 10-6, if you open up the cylinder, the cylinder stop should pop up smartly every time you press it down and release it. It should not be sluggish. If it is sluggish, the spring might be weak, or there could be crud preventing it from moving briskly.

It is always possible that someone polished down the engagement section of the cylinder stop, so that it does not engage deep enough to lock the cylinder properly. There is less engagement on the side of the locking slot where the tear drop shaped lead in is, so it is always possible that someone over polished the cylinder stop and it is no longer engaging the slot properly.

A raised burr along the deeper side of the slot is fairly common on revolvers that have seen a lot of rapid fire double action shooting over the years. This is caused by the cylinder stop repeatedly stopping the rapid rotation of the cylinder in rapid double action shooting. However this should not affect the function of the revolver.

Other than these things, it is difficult to determine what might be causing a cylinder to rotate when it shouldn't without first hand examination of the gun.

 

[James K]

It is interesting to compare that drawing with a similar one of a new S&W; there are quite a few changes which make the new guns less complex, less costly and, hopefully, more reliable. (Whether the new "lock" is an improvement is, shall we say, open to discussion.)

It seems to me that the problem with the cylinder stop may be the result of an attempt to "smooth up" the trigger pull and going too far. When the "gunsmith" found that he had messed up, he dumped the gun on a new owner. We can only hope that only the one part is damaged.

Jim

 

[gwpercle]

It's common for a tiny amount of crud buildup to keep the bolt stop "thingy" from engaging all the way up....take it down and do a good cleaning , clean out all nooks and crannies and all parts . I use a small dental pick to get crud cleaned out.
Gary

 

[Model12Win]

Model 10s were used from the late 1800s all the way up through the 1990s for police work. Quite the length of service life.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Model 10s were used from the late 1800s all the way up through the 1990s for police work. Quite the length of service life.

Well, here's the old nitpicker again. The Model 10 did not appear until 1957. Prior to that, dating back to 1899, the predecessor to the Model 10 was the 38 Military and Police. In 1957, S&W changed over to a numbering system for all their revolvers, and the 38 M&P became the Model 10.

Here is a photo of a 38 Military and Police, 1st Model (Model of 1899). Chambered for the then brand new 38 Special cartridge it shipped in 1899. This one has a very low serial number, below 200.

The internals of the Model 10 are basically unchanged since 1905. There have been many small changes, but in 1905 the internal mechanism was changed to what is basically the same as what is still being made today.

 

[Model12Win]

Well, here's the old nitpicker again. The Model 10 did not appear until 1957. Prior to that, dating back to 1899, the predecessor to the Model 10 was the 38 Military and Police. In 1957, S&W changed over to a numbering system for all their revolvers, and the 38 M&P became the Model 10.

Here is a photo of a 38 Military and Police, 1st Model (Model of 1899). Chambered for the then brand new 38 Special cartridge it shipped in 1899. This one has a very low serial number, below 200.

The internals of the Model 10 are basically unchanged since 1905. There have been many small changes, but in 1905 the internal mechanism was changed to what is basically the same as what is still being made today.

BEAUT!! What a treasure is that '99 Smith!!