S&B, Wolf, and american ammo

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hologon

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Now that I've discovered how much it's going to cost me to shoot (even my frugal FMJ 9x19 round is not so-very-cheap; I shudder to think about .45!) I've been looking for cheap ammo, but not one that's going to really going to foul up the insides of my gun.

Purpose is mostly just short-range target, not personal defense (I'll be getting some hydra-shok for that, I suppose) -- and I'm not even at the point where I shoot at 75 feet yet, just the 50 feet lines.

The S&B (Sellier and Bellot) Czech stuff at the local Sport's Authority is about $8 a box, but Cascade Ammo's Russian Wolf 9mm is something like $119 for 1000 rounds. Not bad!

When I asked my local range folk what they thought about the S&B and the Wolf, I was told you get what you pay for -- they're pretty much garbage -- dirty, unreliable, and highly inaccurate.

For the purposes of just range firing, is the Wolf stuff really all that bad? At 50-75 feet, am I going to be affected significantly? And what about the cleanliness of the round, compared to typical low-end American ones (aka, Winchester USA)?

Last, what is the point of a "corrosive" primer, and what makes it different from a "non-corrosive primer"? Does it cause damage even if you clean the gun right after you use it? (not that I could ever find corrosive 9x19 ammo...just curious)

Thanks!

-jon
 
Sellier & Bellot is good stuff. I've NEVER had a malfunction with it. I found it FAR more accurate than the Federal Hydra-shoks in my Ruger P-95. Also look at the CCI Blazer ammo... both S&B are $7-8.00 at The Sports Authority here in Ga for 9mm.

Ben
 
Natchez, 800-251-7839, has Sellier and Bellot 9mm FMJ for $5.89 per box, plus shipping and handling. 9mm Federal American Eagle is $6.39, 9mm Winchester USA is $6.59. I have ordered from Natchez three times, and the service has been excellent.

Regarding "you get want you pay for," what did the folks at the local range recommend? I have fired about 500 rounds of Sellier and Bellot. I have had no problems. It does not seem especially dirty to me, at least compared to PMC. Since I have just purchased a case, I'll be using it for a while.

I have also fired about 3,000 rounds of Winchester USA. My only problem with the it was that the sealant Winchester uses clogged the firing pin channel on my USP. A little BreakFree Powder Blaster solved this problem.

I have also used Aguila, PMC, Geco, IMI, and Federal M882. All were satisfactory, though the PMC leaves the muzzle of the pistol dirty. I haven't tried Wolf.

If you buy by the case, you should have no problem finding 9mm target ammunition for $7 a box delivered. Try a few boxes of each. You'll find something that you like.

[This message has been edited by Cawdor (edited September 25, 1999).]
 
The range recommended PMC for cheaper ammo, and only sells MagTech (which I have never heard of) at something like $10.50 a box of 9mm.

They don't recommend the Winchester USA (which I thought was just great after 1 box).

I think I might just try another box of the S&B and then order a case from Natchez. At $5.89, that comes to $118 for a case, which is just fine by me!

Thanks for the advice, everyone. =)

-Jon
 
I agree with the others: I've shot thousands of rounds of S&B in 9mm and .45 and have yet to experience a squibb, and no failures to fire that could be attributed to the ammo.

That is NOT the case with CCI Blazer (the range ammo where I shoot). PMC seems okay, but I've found S&B to be more accurate.

(My 1911 LOVES S&B .45, and likes the IMI stuff almost as well. While both are technically the same weight/power, the S&B seems to shoot softer in my guns.)

It would be my ammo of choice, even if it were more expensive.

(I buy by 9mm from Natchez Shooters Supply; the last stuff I bought came to $135 for 1000 rounds, shipped. I've gotten the IMI from Cole Distributing.)


[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited September 27, 1999).]
 
Stay away from a brand called American Ammunition. See this thread:
http://ericcom.com/glocktalk/Forum3/HTML/004189.html

Here is my own personal story about American Ammunition:

I purchased 650 rounds of .45 ACP American Ammunition brand for my new P220. Decided I’d break in the pistol with the stuff. I experienced a malfunction once every 10 rounds or so (usually a failure-to-go-into-battery malfunction.) I thought maybe the pistol just needed more breaking in. After 300 rounds or so (still having the malfunctions) I became suspicious of the gun, thinking maybe it needed a visit to Sig. Then I read the above thread.

I performed the following unscientific test: I removed the barrel of my P220 and inserted some of the American Ammo rounds into the chamber. I then inverted the barrel to see if they would slide out freely. I tested 100 rounds this way. 20 out of the 100 tested would not fall from the chamber when the barrel was inverted, and one was too long to fit in the chamber. All rounds felt tight when inserting them into the chamber. I performed this same test with other ammo (Cor-Bon, PMC) and all their rounds slipped right in and slipped right out.

A friend of mine used 9mm American Ammunition in a recent shooting class. His class was mostly an exercise in malfunction clearing with his heretofore reliable Glock 19.


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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789


[This message has been edited by deanf (edited September 28, 1999).]
 
Ditto on the S&B, I've shot a ton of it in 9mm & .45, and found it quite satisfactory. Natchez seems to have the best deal on the 9mm, (they also offer AM. Eagle and Win. white box for about .80/box more) Cheaper than Dirt does OK on .45 ($8.89/box in case lots).

Range clerks want to sell range ammo, there's good margin on it, and that's what they're in business for, eh?
M2
 
Hologon: I fire Russian-made ammunition through my USP on a regular basis--both Wolf and the Ulyanovsk surplus stuff. I'll admit, although the Ulyanovsk ammo (which costs about $106 for 1000 rounds of 9mm from Cole Distributing) shoots well, it is a little dirtier than Wolf or other American ammo I've shot. You'll put a little more effort into cleaning your gun after shooting it, but I wouldn't consider it something to be overly worried about.

Danger Dave: The next batch of ammo I plan on buying is 1000 rounds of 115gr 9mm JHP from Georgia Arms. It'll be a while before I order it (maybe 2 weeks), but I'll post what I think about it.

------------------
Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
 
I use alot of the Wolf brand 9mm. It works great. Very accurate from a Hi-Point carbine and it knocks the pepper poppers down as well as any other ammo I have tried with my handguns. I use it in a PT92, and a P89 Ruger and have had no problems. It's going for $6.00 a box here at the shows. I haven't found a better deal yet for reliable, accurate ammo.
 
I've used IMI 9mm ammo FMJ from Cole Distributing ($135 for 1000 rds delivered). It works without any problem with my HK USP 9C and my friend's Beretta. I also ordered from the same source S.Africa 9 mm 115 gr FMJ $121 delivered, did not try though. I'll inform how it shoots later.

Zentao.
 
I shot Wolf ammo in my CZ-75, total 200 rounds. Pretty hot and totally reliable.
Was able to get 4-5" groups at 25 yards.
In comparison, Fiocchi, which is also hot ammo and which I think is one of the best brands, gave me 3-3.5".

Wolf 9mm seems to be very good for free-style
target practice and plinking, but I would not
use it for competition...
 
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