S&B Brass, Tight Primer Pockets, and Lee Turret Press

[Mauser69]

I seem to recall reading somewhere a while back some comments about the primer pockets in Sellier and Bellot brass, so this info may be well known even though I haven't see it mentioned more than that one time.

I recently wanted to increase my stock of .357 brass, and I found a great sale on Herters brand ammo that worked out to be just a penny or so cheaper per round that it would cost me to buy new brass and reload them. According to the box, the ammo is loaded by Sellier and Bellot even though the headstamp only says Herters.

I reloaded some of the brass initially on my old RCBS Rockchucker press with no significant issues. I prime all of my brass exclusively on the specific press I am using just before the powder charge stage, and all the primers went in fine using the Rockchucker priming arm - no feeling of tighter than normal primer pockets, and only a few initial "catches" or brief hangups before the primer slid home.

On the next reloading session, I switched to using my Lee Turret press, and the problems began when priming virtually all of the Herters brass, while boxes of Speer and WW Super brass primed just fine. I farted around with the press and priming arm for several hours trying to find the specific problem, but it turned out to be a combination of several things.

The problems I was having involved the primers refusing to go in at all or at least hanging up on the entrance of the priming pocket before suddenly going home. Most of the seated primers (CCI 500) showed distortion on one side of the base like they were being pushed in crooked, and there was almost always a ring of shaved metal from the primer around the opposite side of the primer from the distorted edge. This shaved brass was significant thickness - sometimes I could pry it off with my thumbnail, and sometimes it took a knife to remove it.

As seems fairly obvious from the fact the issue was ONLY with the Herters brass, the problem started there. Although the pockets do not seem significantly undersized, if at all, they do have a very "square" shape to the top - just like a fresh hole drilled in a flat piece of metal with a sharp bit. Seating the primers in this brass seemed like I imagine you would experience with brass that still had a primer crimp ring. Since I do not reload used military brass, I do not have any specific tools for removing primer crimp ridges, but I do have an RCBS "Burring Tool" (seems like it should be called a DE-burring tool, but it's not). Anyway, this tool is marked "17 to 45", and the tip of the inside cutter is just the right size to chamfer the edges around a small primer pocket. One quick rotation of the tool around each pocket solved the problem after another issue was fixed.

The shaving of brass from the primer sides created a very significant contributing factor. A couple of those half-circle slivers of brass got stuck down under the primer cup on the priming arm, causing the cup to sit cocked a bit to the side. This was a huge problem with the Lee priming arm since the punch and cup cannot be removed from the arm like they can on the RCBS press. The only way I eventually got them out was to take a small vise grip to clamp around the cup and then hold it back and cocked to one side while I knocked the tip of the pinch on the top of my bench. This created just enough clearance to finally allow the brass slivers to work their way out from under the cup.

I hope this information helps anyone else who runs into a problem with S&B primer pockets.

 

[Sid]

I have had a similar problem with S&B brass in .32 ACP on my Lee Turret Press. Now I just discard the stuff and use other brands.

 

[Sevens]

It may have been one of my posts that you referred to as having read of an experience with S&B brass.

I came in to my supply of S&B because a buddy of mine came in to a large lot of the stuff (once fired .38 Special) and after working with it in one session, he concluded quickly that he did NOT need this much hassle in his life.

I am a little more patient, especially when I have a specific end-game, so I took the brass from him for a low cost (and the work of separating it from all his other brass... a large job that is fun to me and painful for him) and I came away from the deal with a LOT of S&B .38 Special brass.

I agree that the Herters stamped brass is exactly the same stuff.

This brass is genuine three-way trouble, in my experience.
1) does NOT deprime as easily as one would hope or expect. I quite literally lost about 5% of the brass because my decap pin just punched clear through the primer cup. Never have I before or since in more than 25yrs of this work ever seen this, but I know that if I grab a handful of once fired S&B .38 right now, I may see it happen right now.

2) obviously does not prime near as easily for reasons detailed above, the primer pocket is very square-edged and you simply need perfect alignment and solid, consistent driving force. Certainly, it can be done, you just need to be at the top of your game.

3) the case walls are thin compared to most and I do see lengthwise splits far, FAR more often than... well, every other .38 head stamp that I have ever worked with.

In the end, none of the above is a complete deal-breaker for me, mostly because of my end game that I eluded to earlier. I use .38 S&B brass (and Herters) for one very specific load, and that is very warm .38 Special specifically for my Coonan pistol with the lighter 10-lb recoil spring. My Coonan is a lot of fun to shoot but it is "random brass chucking" device and it is baffling the way this pistol will throw brass in a full 360 degrees and at varying distances.

So I use S&B brass specifically because I lose some of the brass upon ejection. I shoot better when I know that some of my .38 brass that will never be found... was bottom of the barrel from birth.