Rusting in HKUSP's barrel pt 3: "The Official Word"

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hologon

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After cleaning out my bore really thoroughly (it was as shiny and slick as a mirrored whistle, having killed a bronze brush in the process) I put my USP9 away, confident I would have no more rust/old primer gunk.

False hope, indeed.

Last night (about a week later) I put a patch through "just to see" and lo and behold, about 4-5 specks of nice bright red and muted brown flaky dust came out on the patch.

I didn't dry fire this time, so it's not like it could have been detached primer crud from the firing pin hole.

I called up H&K. The official word on rust?

"As long as it doesn't affect your performance/firing, don't worry about. Just keep it well cleaned after ever time you fire it, and that's all you need to worry about."

So.

Is that really true? On one hand, sure, I should expect a little more from my defensive handgun than that, but if it's just cosmetic and not exactly a problem -- I can afford to run a patch down the bore every other week to clean it out. If it really doesn't cause a problem, should I concern myself with it?

After all, if it's suppsoed to have passed all those crazy military tests, maybe they know that a little bit 'o rust ain't never hurt nobody?

What about leaving a coating of oil on the inside? I've heard that it's supposed to be catastrophic if you fire the gun without cleaning out the insides, and for a defense gun, I think that's asking a little too much ("Wait, please -- don't kill me yet. I have to wipe out my bore.")

Thanks again for all the help.

-Jon
 
HK USP, when I had a chance to examine it,
shows all signs of a cheaply produced weapon. It's probably good design, but every element of this product points to the desire to reduce cost of production. I have no guns
in my arsenal ( I got 18), which will have rust in a bore after good cleaning, even when I shoot milsurp ammo. It's really hard to believe, but if it is indeed a rust, it means that the alloy they use for barrel
needs a bit more nickel/chrome or whatever it should include to be more, say, rust-resistant.

Can be another reason as well. If you shoot
corrosive ammo, you need to clean barrel
with ammonia-based solvent first, and then
with Hoppes#9 and stuff...

Try to oil the bore and see what happenes. If rust stops forming, then it's probably properties of the metal itself, so keep oiling it...
 
I ALWAYS run an oiled patch through my barrel after cleaning to avoid rust. before I go to the range i just run a few more clean patches through to remove most of the oil. If the gun is going to be carried for defense, keep it oiled... who cares if you do some very minor damage to your barrel by firing through an oiled bore...its a small price to pay for your life.
 
A very lightly oiled bore will not experience any damage from firing a bullet through it. Pour enough in there to leave little drops all over and you're in trouble territory.

This really sounds more like a corrosive primer problem. What's your humidity level there? Your ammonia-based cleaner will ONLY help if there's enough water in there to wash away the Chlorate salts. Then you gotta do it for three days in a row, to catch the stuff stuck in the metal's "pores" or microfissures or whatever you want to call them.

Water works best, followed by a patch to dry it out and a light oil patch to protect the metal.

FWIW, I bought a used rifle once that had a real ugly bore. A week of stronger-than-household ammonia overnight soakings got the metal fouling out, but the lands were rusted through about 3/4 of the width in a few spots only 2 inches back from the bore. It still shot just under 2 MOA, which was okay for that design of rifle.

Any time you put away a cleaned bore with no oil, under humidity above probably 30%, you should expect rust...especially if the temperature swings more than maybe 5 degrees F. The cold gun will (repeat WILL) "sweat" moisture out of the air and get wet. It can even happen to a cased gun (firsthand experience here!).
 
I believe low cost is goal of Hk as most of their rifles are stamped metal, though few would make suggestion that a Hk 91 would not perform as well as other rifles designed for like minded purposes. Cheap was how most of the U.S weapons experts said of the MG 42 until the chief said the design was the best he has seen and would "digest sand and crush it up into silicone to self lubricate it self" This CHEAP stamped gun did not get the name "Reaper of the Reich" because it did not work. This weapon was later reverse engineered to produce the M60.

As to rust I agree with cheapo.
 
Cheapo,

[ A very lightly oiled bore will not experience any damage from firing a bullet through it. Pour enough in there to leave little drops all over and you're in trouble territory. ]

Ok... makes sense. I have a question, though. If I run an oiled patch through the bore, I _DO_ get little drops of oil everywhere. (This is with the orange Hoppes' oil -- I drip enough oil to saturate the center half of the patch (i.e. see through it but not dripping) and then fold it over a brass jag and run it through the bore.)

It's not so bad that the drops actually RUN if I tilt the barrel, but there are definitely little drops collecting all over the bore. What am I doing wrong?

[This really sounds more like a corrosive primer problem. What's your humidity level there? Your ammonia-based cleaner will ONLY help if there's enough water in there to wash away the Chlorate salts. Then you gotta do it for three days in a row, to catch the stuff stuck in the metal's "pores" or microfissures or whatever you want to call them. Water works best, followed by a patch to dry it out and a light oil patch to protect the metal.]

So far, only Winchester USA and Hydra-Shok through the bore... :( Humidity is well in the 60-90% regularly (This is New Jersey...first communist state!)

So I should wash down the barrel/block with water (soap is ok?) and then with ammonia (Windex is ok?) then dry patch and oil, and repeat for 3 days? Would that work?

[Any time you put away a cleaned bore with no oil, under humidity above probably 30%, you should expect rust...especially if the temperature swings more than maybe 5 degrees F. The cold gun will (repeat WILL) "sweat" moisture out of the air and get wet. It can even happen to a cased gun (firsthand experience here!)]

*nod* Ok, I understand that part now. The HK manual says that a "very light" coating of oil was necessary -- I read that to mean an oiled patch followed by a dry patch. But I'll just try an oiled patch and let it sit.

Thanks for your advice!!! I'm slowly learning how to treat my guns right. =)

-Jon
 
Holo I was hoping to be able to claim the first commie state, but I guess I'll have to settle for second, The Kalifornia Kommando.

As to damage to bore if there is oil in it, a friend of mine with usp 45 loves to oil the hell out of it and his bore if fine, and he does not wipe before first shot. As to rust out here in Kali there is virtually no humidity in our area so maybe thats why he has no rust?
 
When I am through cleaning my handgun bores, I run a patch dampened w/ Birchwood-Casey "Sheath" through it. It is said to bond w/ the metal of the bore to prevent rust. Is seems to work. Anyone else use it? Your results?
 
Not all oil is created equal...I don't like
rem oil it evaporates too quickly. There are
a few ways to solve your problem. Molyfusion
works well but is a little pricey www.shootersolutions.com or get the Marine
Tuff cloth by WWW.sentrysolutions.com and cut set up into 2x2 squares and lubricate your
bore with it. Either way the problem is solved. You can also get the tuff cloth at www.brownells.com



[This message has been edited by bobo (edited November 26, 1999).]
 
Hi, Guys,

Ammonia deals well with metal fouling, but the best treatment for corrosive primers is plain hot water and a bronze brush. Water should be hot enough to let the barrel dry on its own. I don't know why a barrel would rust with modern American ammo. I do know that ammonia and some other cleaners will remove all oil and leave metal so bare it will rust in a few hours. I use something called G96 Gun Cleaner which works well and leaves a film of oil to protect the gun.

I can't help but wonder if there is something else involved. Rust is rarely bright red; it is usually brown. If you have that much rust, the barrel should show patches of rough steel where the rusting occurred. Picture me scratching my head.

Jim
 
This is screwy. I had a USP40 I bought in 94 and it was a quality weapon. Did HK drop their standards? The barrel should NOT rust when left clean stored for a week. Send it back, and demand satisfaction. As for leaving a coat of oil in the bore, it will hurt nothing. I'm suprised people leave the bore without it. It's best to clean out a heavy storage grease, but oil will not harm it at all. Common practice in the military was to clean the cosmoline out af a new gun by firing it a couple times. BTW, I use MOBIL 1 oil to lube my weapons. A lot cheaper, and better engineered.

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I have grown to like HKs a little, but was completely turned off to them after visiting the local gun store the other day. First off, way too pricey, just my opinion... second, if that polymer **** is supposed to be tougher than metal, why was part of the lower assembly chewed up where the slide connects??? One more thing, and don't hold me to this, but if I understood correctly, the gun was new in the shop, and when the sales rep went to let me take a look at it, the slide wouldn't rack... and the trigger would not work... go figure, the instore gunsmith had to take it apart, do something to it, and put it back together to get it to work... Shouldn't they work from the factory? geez, maybe they hace lowered their standards.

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"...you're thinkin was that 5 shots or was it 6? Well, you've gotta ask yourself one question: Do you feel lucky??? ...Well, do ya PUNK!?!?
 
Was cleaning my USP compact the other night, and after I was done I inspected the, what I thought to be a clean, barrel.

I still saw reddish stripes in the barrel, after reading this thread I thought jeeez not my gun too. So I restarted, soaked the barrel in shooters choice mc #7 and let it sit for a good 2 hours. Patches came out skyblue, just plain copperfouling.

BTW, just shot my million dollar group with my first batch of Hornady handloaded XTP's 115 grain. 1" @ 15 yards 5 shot group.

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Disperse you rebels, disperse and lay down your weapons at once
 
I think you mentioned in a previous post that you DRIED the barrel after oiling it. You're NOT supposed to do that.

Make sure you put an oil soaked patch through the barrel using the correct caliber jag and then store it with the oil in the barrel.

try and oil it weekly,
Ben

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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
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