Russian .22 lr Mil Trainer ...advice solicited

B

Bud Helms

Senior Member
I recently came into a T03-8M single shot bolt action Russian military training rifle, at a decent price. It has matching serial numbers on the bolt and action ... no particular value, just good to know the original parts are there.

Front site is a simple straight round post inside a large ring. Rear sight is a typical hinged battle sight leaf sitting on a flat spring with twin spring-loaded plunger "ears" to slide and lock in place a shallow v-notch on markings labeled from 25m to 100m. Bull barrel. One action screw worth the name and one wood screw waaay back on the tail.

I was in such a hurry to shoot this critter in a match, I put the only scope I had at the time on it, a Tasco World Class 6-24x50 Silhouette scope. Well, never let it be said I shied away from trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. The thing shot erratically, as in a group of 6 or 7 shots right on top of each other (25 yds), then one outside the group about a quarter inch out somewhere all by itself. Direction of the flyer is not consistant. Anywhere 360 degrees from the center of the group.

So, I bedded it. (This is going to be a nice silk purse, I said to myself.) Then I went back and applied another thin coat of Acra-Glass on top of the first coat to make it smooth and perfect. The thing is bedded. It still throws the flyer about once in a string of five though.

I noticed the firing pin spring was powerful, so I disassembled the the bolt to see how it worked and took a couple of turns off the firing pin spring, then put it back together. Now that was a tormenting procedure ... a three-piece bolt body:eek:. No noticeable improvement. So, I am going to continue to reduce the spring tension to see if I can lessen the shock of it striking the rim and still reliably ignite the primer.

Here is the strange part. The firing pin has a long slot, through which a drift pin secures it in the bolt body. I noticed, when I had it disassembled, that the firing pin, in the area of the slot, has been damaged. It looks like it was bent and straightened back out. Even though it is only a slight bend and there is plenty of inside diameter in the bolt in that area, it will not ride the drift pin straight when released to strike the primer. I am sure this is the problem and I am going to try a machinist in the area to make a new firing pin.

The second thing that really bothers me is that this rifle has a great trigger, but it really WHACKS the cartridge when the trigger is pulled. If you chamber a cartridge, but don't pull the trigger and rotate the bolt back up, the firing pin spring throws the bolt back so hard, the unfired cartridge is ejected about 15 feet. And that is after I cut three turns off the spring! There is still about 5 inches of spring and it gets compressed down about 25-30%.

In the mean time, I wonder, with all the knowledge on this board, if any rifleers and do it yourself gunsmiths here have worked on any of these little rifles and have any suggestions or discoveries they might like to share.
 
7 shots on top of each other is erratic? Wait, you said scoped.

On mine, the rear of the firing pin was mashed up from where the striker hits it I guess. This caused the pin to stick somewhat in its slot so that it wouldn't come back when you pulled the bolt back. Thus, you couldn't get the next round to seat properly. I pulled the pin out and filed it down. Fixed that problem. Only problem now is that if I don't close the bolt fast enough, the tip of the rounds go too high in the action to chamber. Guess that's a magazine spring tension prolem.
 
Hi, Sensop.

Now you should either trust me on this topic or just disregard it, if you wish. You see, I was born and raised in Russia, and shot lots of .22 there (was a member of shooting club in Moscow). TOZ-8 and TOZ-12, CM, also beautiful Margolin pistol. In 1995 I bought TOZ-12, which
is basically TOZ-8 with longer handguard and micrometer peep sight instead of V-notch type. I bought because of
nostalgia and because it's a very accurate rifle.

Anyway, I'm afraid you went too far with your effort to improve TOZ-8, although if firing pin was indeed damaged,
and does not move freely, it could be a factor, of course.

If barreled action is O.K., this rifle does not require
extra bedding. All you need to do is to check out that
barrel is completely free floating, from the receiver
to the end of the handguard. TOZ does have a very strong firing pin spring, and it kicks the bolt backwards on opening, exactly as you described.But that is one of the reasons it's an accurate rifle, 'cause lock time is so short. I think you should stop weakening firing pin spring
any further or you're going to end up with useless wallhanger...

Groups that you're getting are pretty bad even for well worn out TOZ 8/12, so my wild guess is that there is a problem with scope. Check out to see that there is no play in scope mount. By the way, did you drill and tap the
receiver to attach scope mount or you used any other method?
I'm just curious.

Just for reference - my TOZ-12 with 4...16x40 Simmons shoots
3/4" groups at 50 yards, with just about any decent standard
velocity ammo.
 
Oris,

Thanks much for the input. I will hold off weakening the spring any further until I check out every other possibility. I can replace the spring if I have to.

I have removed the scope and will check the rifle with open sights tomorrow. If it shoots good I will install a different scope and try it. BTW, since the rifle was grooved for mounts, I used them and did not drill and tap. The base and rings were put on tight and straight. I don't think that's the problem, but tomorrow should tell something.

As to the action ... there is noticeable wear on the bolt at two places. There is one band of wear about 8mm wide at the very front of the bolt from 9 o'clock, over the top, all the way to 3 o'clock. There is another band, same width just ahead of the bolt handle. This one goes all the way around, because the body is round at this point, not half-round like the forward 5cm (approx). These areas of wear look like a design to keep the bolt snug in the action housing, because, by running your finger over these areas, you can determine that they are higher than the rest of the bolt.

Another strange observation: I have noticed on firing pin fall, that the front section of the bolt will rotate the opposite direction from bolt closing. It counter-rotates maybe 1 or 2 mm. I'm sure it is firing pin spring torque being released, but I wonder if the wear on the "high" areas are allowing that to happen. As in the snugness of a new bolt-to-action might not permit the counter-rotating jump of the bolt at pin fall. The high dollar rifles I want to shoot against, don't have this bolt jump at firing pin release, but it may not be a problem. I'm new at this .22 rimfire target shooting. Can you tell?;)

Now about the TOZ vs T03. Is the Arabic numeral "3" a Russian "Z"? The markings on top of the action are definitely "T03 8M". I checked it under a magnifying glass to make sure I was reading it correctly.
 
Well, I took this little beauty to the range today and shot with the stock open sights at 25 yds. It shoots fine. Then I put a new scope on it and I have to crank the azimuth waaaay over to the left, just like the last scope I tried. This time I can't get the scope to reach the point of impact. I take the scope back off and just look at the thing. A club member and friend drives up. I love this guy ... retired high school teacher in a small rural Georgia town. He looks at it and says, "The barrel's crooked."

"Huh?", I say.

"The barrel's crooked. It's not square to the action.", he says.

"Bill, xxxdammit, you don't just walk up to a rifle and say, "The barrel's crooked", you idiot! You gotta micrometer behind your left eye or sumthin!?"

"Well, step back here and take a look", he says.

I step back behind the rifle and look down ... and ... I can not believe my eyes! The barrel's crooked! Well, it's not bent, ... but it's not true to the action. The barrel takes off in a different direction from the line of the axis of the action. You can see it. I'll be damned!

Now I have to see which is cheaper, unscrew the barrel and true the barrel to the action, or just consign it to the used rifle rack down at the gunshop and go for another rifle. I don't think I'm up to a gunsmith bill for a $75 rifle.

'Looks like I got what I paid for ... ?
 
Gosh...

You got a real rarity. In my years in Moscow I've never seen
a crooked TOZ-8. By the way, "3" is Russian "Z", you're right.

What puzzles me is that this TOZ receiver is grooved for scope mounting. It's not supposed to have such receiver.
Original Russian-made TOZ-8/12 were never intended to be used with scope, only with iron sights. May be you got some kind of "modified" TOZ-8, from some of the former Soviet
block country, TOZ rifles were exported to Bulgaria, East
Germany, etc.

Even with such crooked barrel you can definetely make it work with the scope, but it will probably require some
messing with a scope mount itself. My advice is to
keep it as is, no scope. Removing the barrel may be a real pain, and after all, it may not help.

Sorry to hear about you problem, TOZ-8 is a sweet shooter.

BTW, TOZ-8 is not a military training rifle, it's an entry level youth target rifle, for kids from 12 to 15. Soviet army did not use .22 rifles for training.
 
Thanks for the correction ... I assumed ...

If I keep it, I will use it with open sights. Now I'm looking at a Savage MkII-LV.

BTW, Oris, thanks for all the help. This rifle has the sweetest trigger in my gun cabinet. Shame.
 
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