Rusky Ammo

D

Doc Holliday 1950

New member
1- Why is Russian steel ammo less costly in 9mm Steel vs. Brass.
2- Can Steel Ammo like Wolf damage your favorite 9mm?
3- Why do a large number of indoor ranges not allow Steel case ammo?

I finally got my usable carry collection of hand guns & in no way do I want to damage any one of them because I cheaped out.

As always, all responses are welcomed & want. These questions have been bugging me for quite a few years but I never got around to ask why.

However, I was alway told that American made ammo was consistently the better made ammo and to buy it only. Money is not the object of this, only quality matters.
 
1. Cheap material, cheap labor.
2. What gun? I doubt my Glock would care, but the Colt?
3. Because they can't get scrap brass price for it.
 
Jim,

I alternate carrying my G19 to my G43x since I shoot regulary & both my Colt King Cobra & Python which I do shoot once a month firing one or two chambers . I also carry my wife's 327 mag revolver 6 shot with laser grips .

Hope all's well with you & family. It has become difficult for me since my wife has
developed Dementia. You mostly are right on the Button with your responses and posts. Hence my question.

Reards,

Jay
 
Sometimes part of the reason for not steel cased ammo is that ammo often has a bimetal bullet. The ranges worry this will be harder on their backstops (assuming an indoor range) than lead and copper.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Sorry to hear of your wife's problems, Doc. Hang in there, you're both in my prayers.

As to Russian ammo...I had enough of that crap shot at me that I don't ever want to support their arms/ammo industry. To this day, the distinctive sound of an AK or SKS with genuine Soviet Block ammunition gets my undivided attention.

Too, it was standard practice with the Special Forces "A" teams that I supported, to "salt" some of the smaller cashes they found with "dynamite" rounds. That stuff is probably long gone...hell it's been 49 years now since my tour...but the memory of those "special" rounds still gives me the creeps...Rod
 
I use a good bit of Tula .45 ACP in my 1911. It's accurate, it just shoots to a different POA than my hand loads. It's nice to fire a box or two every now and then and not have to worry about chasing brass.
 
OK, this brass vs. steel cased ammo test by Luckygunner is for AR's shooting 556 ammo, not pistol ammo.

However, it's the most exhaustive test I've seen yet. 4 new carbines, each one shot fast with 10,000 rounds of brass or steel cased ammo. Macro pictures, measurements of pressure, slow motion capture video of cyclic rate. The most helpful part to me was the in depth picture of extractor wear (zoom way in if you have a decent computer / internet connection), and the cost effectiveness line graph at the bottom. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#erosion .


Long story short, for AR's, you maintain better accuracy, cyclic rate through less fouling, maintain bore / throat integrity by shooting brass cased AR ammo beyond 10,000 rounds under rapid fire with a chrome lined barrel. Steel cased barrels were "shot out" at 6,000 rounds. But if you factor in cost, you could replace the barrel twice within those 10,000 rounds and still save $1,000 by the time you bought / shot 10,000 rounds.

What would be different for semi auto pistols? Well, in the test all rifles were shot so fast that they were too hot to hold - probably to accelerate wear to make the differences more significant. What if the rifles were actually shot at a more realistic pace? Like maybe a string of a mag or 2 as in a stage in a competition or doing drills? I'd imagine the barrel would not reach nor sustain the temperatures met during the test. And pistol ammo doesn't reach the same chamber pressures / temperature as rifle either, 9mm is about half max pressure of 556. So that would make for even less wear.

If we apply the same conclusions: If you want cleaner cycling, more theoretical accuracy, less theoretical wear on extractors or barrels, shoot brass. But if you recognize that barrels and extractors or bushings (where applicable) are replaceable - heck even complete slides are available, then shoot away, you may end up saving in the long run depending on cost of replacement parts. And that's if the lower pressured steel cased pistol rounds (compared to rifle) could even erode anything with flame cutting.

These days an aftermarket Glock barrel can be had for ~$55 shipped. Crazy.

The accuracy bit is more significant on a rifle, whereas on pistol the human is usually the limiting factor unless you are shooting bullseye with a tricked out pistol.

On a nice old revolver though, I wouldn't be able to replace a barrel as easily so I'd go brass. And I reload.
 
As far as ranges not allowing steel cases I agree with Jim Watson, the range doesn't want to create extra work separating the steel from brass, although a big magnet does it quick. Not being critical, I might not want to mess with it either.
I generally don't shoot steel case ammo except in AK's, 7.62x39 and I shoot Wolff 45 ACP in my AR 45 pistol, just because I put a lot of rounds through it rapid fire, and it's cheap. But it is also accurate through that gun.
 
dyl's info is some of the most objective, compared to most "knowledgeable" internet comments, which are based on what thousands of other people merely Say, and Repeat.

You will learn more from that evaluation (not perfect-but who else has done it?) than by reading 100,000 comments.

Another point is the inherent bias --call it something else if you want-- against both Russian gun designs and ammo. The steel-cased is usually considered as practice ammo.
Some of it is probably spread by US ammunition manufacturers and stores which sell mostly US-made ammo.

Most people don't even know whether a comment they read about, or heard, refers to bimetal bullet coatings, powder, primers, steel cases, lacquer. Some still believe that modern commercial Russian ammo has corrosive primers!

They often don't know the context/situation of a specific comment.

One problem is that decades of indoctrination with Dozens of post-apocalyptic movies, has conditioned their subconscious "mind".....to believe that their AR or Mini 14 etc will plausibly be used in a firefight. Not Iraq, not Venezeula or Chad--in the US. The idea of an extractor breaking after 3,000 rds--if at all--by their "thinking", will leave them dependent on their Glock.

The study indicated that a new AR barrel ("x" grade steel) could be worn out, if often very overheated, after 6,000 rds., just Before the true Road Warrior scenario begins??:eek:
 
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All of the indoor ranges here allow the steel case stuff. They do not allow for the aluminum case stuff. The steel can be sorted out of the brass bucket with a magnet.

As far as it being hard on guns. I have not seen any damage to guns from firing it. I have seen a few AR rifles that choked on some needing a drill rod to drive the round out of a badly dirty chamber.

I use the steel case stuff when I know I am not going to be able to collect my spent cases. I do not lament leaving good brass in the high grass that way.

I just last week saw that Winchester is selling steel cased ammo. Also Hornady at one point sold steel cased match ammo.
 
Steel cases are frowned upon by Luddites. They bitterly resist all change.

"If'n grandaddy used brass cases, then by golly I'm a-gonna use 'em. Aint no good reason to go and do nothin what grandaddy dint do!":rolleyes:
 
"...Because they can't get scrap brass price for it..." Or sell it to reloaders. Brass is more expensive than mild steel due to the copper content of the alloy.
Steel cases are unlikely to bother your pistol. There have been reports of AR's having extractors broken though.
The real reason to not use steel cased stuff for CCW in the relatively poor accuracy of the ammo.
"...a bimetal bullet...." That's a copper washed steel jacketed bullet. There is a tendency for 'em to bounce.
 
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