Run in with a vagrant

KUHIO

New member
This past weekend I was at a Ross store here in Las Vegas with two or my Aunts, my mother and her fiance. As we walking throught the parking lot back to the car, a homeless man approached us and asked if "we had any cash to spare." I was standing in between him and the rest of my party, it was obvious this man was drunk or under the influence of some substance so I said "sorry sir can't help you."
We continued walking, but he began to close the distance between. He began harassing the women in our group for money/change etc. I told him again to leave them alone, and that we had nothing for him. At this point he became very irate. He began yelling, and making threatening gestures. He was wearing a large winter coat over a hoodie he also had on, so I was totally unsure of whether or not he could have a weapon concealed. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE HERE THAT I WAS NOT ARMED, BECAUSE ON THIS MORNING WE WOULD BE ATTENDING A HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL GAME ON A SCHOOL CAMPUS = NO WEAPONS. I DID have a pocket knife I always carry, and was prepared to use it if the situation demanded.
So we're nearly to our vehicle and this man has continued to follow us. I told him to leave or I was going to call the police. He became very angry when I said this and quickened his pace walking directly at me. I was very nervous the way he kept putting his hands into his pockets, it was unsettling. I told my mother's fiance to call 911 and I pulled the knife from my pocket but didn't open it yet, as he continued to approach me. I put my weak hand up and again told him to " STOP, you need to leave." By now, my mother's fiance was already speaking to the 911 operator giving a description of the man. He came within about 6 feet of me, THEN I opened the knife. He stopped and turned towards my mother's fiance on the phone. I told him to get in the car and lock the doors, he did. So I'm standing outside the car with this individual who still is not leaving. I have an open knife in my hand, and I'm continuing to give this man verbal commands to leave, keeping him about 6 feet away, but he's pacing back and forth and weaving through the cars in the parking lot like he thinks I'll lose track of him. A moment later my mother's fiance rolls his window down and says "The police are on their way."
Finally this guy loses his steam, he spits towards me, then turns and starts to walk away. I waited until the PD showed up and I explained what happened, we gave them a description of the man and which direction he headed. The officer asked me if the vagrant had any weapons, I told him I didn't see any, but it wouldn't have been hard for him to hide one. Then he shook my hand, and told my mother she had a good kid :D and sent us on our way. My Aunts were quite flustered, having never experienced anything like this but we made it away safe and sound without incident.
 
I wonder if they tracked the guy down.

Glad to see you did'nt have to stick him with the knife but without the phone call going on in process,I think you would have had to stab this guy.

He seemed to think that you were defeatable and was determined to get at your women probably for their purse money.

The difference between this and the attack that might have happened had you not took the threat seriously was only a few seconds.

Had he smashed you in the back of the head,your women would have likely been defenseless.

It would have been nice if you had been able to legally be armed and detain this piece of 'something' for the police.

And then the police got the 'something' off the street.

He'll be attacking less defended people in the future I have no doubt.
 
Having lived in Daytona Beach I have had MANY run ins with bums!
But the one that really gets my craw was at a popeyes fried chicken. I was spending some of our little money on a late quick supper and treat (trust me... my kids considered it a treat) for the family on my way home from work. First thing the guy hits me up for cash before i go in. As he is following me i held the door for him and his wheel chair. He had pipped the coal off his cigarette and had tucked it in his hair. while I and he are in the line, me in front as he motioned me ahead after i held the door... A few moments later I say... "hey buddy, yer fro is on fire..." and I wasn't joking...
well I get my food and put the few bucks change, gas money for tomorrow, in my pocket and head for the door and sure enuff the bum follows me out without ordering. He says "how about that that money you got?" "Well how bout it? none of your business but it is fuel money, I have no cash to spare and never do." second bum joins him and says "well how about that food you bought?" "My kids supper? I don't think so!" I motion to them to clear out as I am climbing in my truck and the walking bum moves towards me... "I just told him "Son, It ain't worth it, you will be in bad shape... I PROMISE!!!" Lucky for him he got the hint or my kids may have had to eat cold chicken after I got done with the interrogation...
Brent
 
when "worthless" folk talk to me on the street........i completely ignor them and say nothing........i find that this works well and they leave me quickly to approach another touch.
 
Dealing with aggressive vagrants/homeless is very dangerous because so many are addicted to hard drugs, have severe, systemic psychological problems, and, for lack of a better term, have nothing to lose. Many live in a state of more or less constant intoxication and hallucination. They live day to day, and there is little in their lives to inhibit them from accosting others and trying to extract whatever money they can by whatever means available to them, including violence.

They're not all this way, but there's no way of telling what that panhandler approaching you has in mind.
 
KUHIO, if you had been carrying 10% Pepper Foam (not spray), it might have helped the bum decide to go harass someone else.
 
Pelican- I'm sure that would have been enough to persuade him to leave or at lease gotten him off our backs. I did what I felt I had to with the tools I was equipped. I've never carried pepper spray or other like-substance, but after this encounter, and some of the stories I've heard/read about, it's becoming a more appealing option.
 
This seems to be happening more and more in our city...A LOT!I wont go anywhere 'unarmed' no matter what the reason,I also have had a few 'undesirable events' as like this myself.
 
grymster2007- You're right. My first response to his inquiry was courteous and respectful. I assure that when his antagonizing continued, my manners did not. ;)
 
I may be wrong but a person who is willing to beg is likely willing to steal if given the chance. I also believe that a person willing to steal your money may just be desperate enough to steal your life. This is the type of encounter that compels me to protect my loved ones and my own life with force, lethal force if necessary.

Like the officer who responded to the 911 call, I say kudos to you for protecting your own. I hope it never happens again but if it does you'll be better prepared with the knowledge and experience from this encounter.
 
I figure that most people lacking manners (asking for money qualifies in my book) will only take politeness as weakness, so I dispense with the politeness right off. In my many years on this planet (and more than a couple encounters similar to which you describe) my approach has worked very well. Of course my response is measured against the perceived level of threat. If it's a late sixties guy or an old woman asking, I might not say anything at all. For very aggressive folks I've actually turned the tables on them ("WTF? YOU'RE WORKING MY SIDE OF THE STREET!"), but for the most part it's the simple, to the point and unambiguous "can't help you".

Gotta admit, I've folded a couple times and given a few bucks to old, unlucky, misguided, stupid souls (take your pick) whom I felt sorry for, but never to an aggressive panhandler.
 
Thirdeagle- Thanks! This man seemed very intent on getting to the ladies in my party, and I felt very passionately about protecting them. I definately learned some things from the experience, but overall I was pleased with how it worked out. I'm glad I was there to intervene; Hate to say it but it wouldn't have been difficult to victimize my 'aged' family members. I appreciate the kind words.

Grymster2007- I agree with your way of thinking. I too have given change to a begger or two. There was no indication initially that led me to believe this man might become aggressive towards us. Once it showed I was very abrupt with him.
 
"bum"

If the guy is psychotic and stoned predicting what he going to do is a crap shoot.......moniter and avoid.
 
From csmsss:
Dealing with aggressive vagrants/homeless is very dangerous because so many are addicted to hard drugs, have severe, systemic psychological problems, and, for lack of a better term, have nothing to lose. Many live in a state of more or less constant intoxication and hallucination. They live day to day, and there is little in their lives to inhibit them from accosting others and trying to extract whatever money they can by whatever means available to them, including violence. They're not all this way [but]...

I think this is something that everyone should keep in mind always.

One does not know whom he or she will encounter when deciding whether to carry when leaving the house, and one does not know anything about the person he or she may encounter.
 
I think we should ALL take heed to this incident, with the economy going South. I drive a cab for a living, and I notice that the rate of violent crime/robbery against Las Vegas drivers is increasing, as it always does around the holidays. It was reducing, since we all got cameras in the cabs, but some bad guys just don't care. Society is getting more violent in general. Note the stampeding death of a Walmart employee yesterday.
Whether you're armed or not, I think the guy who said to let them know in your manner that they don't want to proceed is the best advice.
 
It would seem that the tactic of a panhandler getting in someone's "personal space" wouldn't take long to blow up in their face. I tell them "NO!" as I continue walking. If they pursue, I STOP, tell them to "STOP!" and walk away. If they continue to stay in my "space" (and in my blind), there's a good chance that they will encounter a swift moving fist or foot.

I know, there's the old "There but for the Grace of God..." thing, and I feel it sometimes. But, it's one thing to meekly ask "can you spare some change" & it's a completely different thing to aggressively approach or pursue for the same purpose. Aggression is aggression, and aggression begats aggression, period.

Panhandlers should be reported whenever they are encountered. The act is illegal in many places and frowned upon heavily by LE in most places. Our local LEAs are stepping up their presence tremendously around shopping malls this year due to the increase in crime activity and they are televising the fact that they are doing so.


Most panhandlers make $40/hr+, tax free. They usually aren't as bad off as they want you to think they are. They don't need my money more then my family does.
 
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An almost identical scenario happened to my family and I while we were in southern California a while back. Same thing, persistent begging turned aggressive verbal assault. My Dad and I were both present (both of us LEO's at the time, he's now retired) and I was heeled. My Dad never carried a weapon off duty. He was from the old school...five knuckles worked quicker than anything else in his mind. Anyway, the homeless guy just was not getting the hint. He finally began verbally attacking my Aunt for the nice jacket she was wearing. My Dad decided it was time to intervene...and intervene he did. The homeless guy did not back down and things just went downhill from there. You know what they say about messing with the bull...sometimes you get the horns. Needless to say, this guy did not get any money, but he got thumped for his efforts. I am not suggesting this to anyone, since it is likely a no win situation, I am just relating the story as I have always respected my Dad and his traditional ways. Plus the story is fairly entertaining :D (And for what its worth, I had his 6 O'clock...Sig P239 IWB).

A friend of mine also likes to beat them to the punch. If he sees one lingering in the shadows or approaching for a handout, my buddy always quickly asks them "Can you spare some change" with his hand held out. It works every time, out of sheer astonishment I suppose. It probably does not hurt that this guy is 6-3, about 245, and a very accomplished martial arts / MMA student.

I normally just choose to ignore. I don't need the problems associated with off duty actions or presenting firearms. It never seems to go smoothly in anything I read.
 
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