Magnum Wheel Man
New member
seems funny that Ruger has delved so deeply into single action revolvers, yet offers nothing in cowboy style rifles... their lever actions while interesting, are odd at best... any thoughts ???
Ruger... why no cowboy rifles ???
- Thread starter Magnum Wheel Man
- Start date
SwampYankee
New member
They probably do not see the return as being worth the investment.
Ruger has begun to pander more and more to the whims of the market (which makes sense if you are interested in making money) and I suspect that any decision they have made in the past 10 years or the next 10 years will be based almost solely on economics.
Just look at where their major push has been: SR9, SR9c, SR40, SR40c, LCP, LCR, LC9.
They have built themselves a niche in the CCW/striker fired market because there is a market. The P series pistols were always horrible and are now mostly dead.
They continue to make the GP, SP and SA's because they SELL!
The 10/22 and Mini-14's SELL!
The M77 and No. 1's are uniques rifles, also with a particular niche, that sell.
I'm not sure the cowboy rifles would do as well.
Ruger has begun to pander more and more to the whims of the market (which makes sense if you are interested in making money) and I suspect that any decision they have made in the past 10 years or the next 10 years will be based almost solely on economics.
Just look at where their major push has been: SR9, SR9c, SR40, SR40c, LCP, LCR, LC9.
They have built themselves a niche in the CCW/striker fired market because there is a market. The P series pistols were always horrible and are now mostly dead.
They continue to make the GP, SP and SA's because they SELL!
The 10/22 and Mini-14's SELL!
The M77 and No. 1's are uniques rifles, also with a particular niche, that sell.
I'm not sure the cowboy rifles would do as well.
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
personally I think alot of CASS shooters would buy American if they had the chance ( & that is actually a quite large market )... Marlin right now ( new manufacture ) is not the product to buy... the Henry's made in America, & some buy, but most SASS shooters think them too heavy & clunky to shoot at SASS competitions... Ruger already make SASS specific revolvers... just seems odd they have never ventured into the cowboy style lever guns
30-30remchester
New member
I live deep in cowboy country now and know many working cowhands. Of the dozen I know only 3 carry a gun of any kind. One guy uses Remington 788's cause they are cheap, another uses a Savage 340 bolt action and another uses an old surplus mauser in 8mm. All bolt actions, so I guess Ruger does build cowboy type guns
. In all seriousness I study old work guns and the people who used them. Cowboys seldom had any gun with them and if they did have a handgun, many times it was a cheap Saturday night special in a pommel holster. Many horses roll when the rider gets off and breaks a rifle often when in a saddle scabbard.
. In all seriousness I study old work guns and the people who used them. Cowboys seldom had any gun with them and if they did have a handgun, many times it was a cheap Saturday night special in a pommel holster. Many horses roll when the rider gets off and breaks a rifle often when in a saddle scabbard.The new cowboy gun must be the Ruger American Rifle!
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifle/models.html
Magnumwheelman wrote:
" personally I think alot of CASS shooters would buy American if they had the chance ( & that is actually a quite large market )... Marlin right now ( new manufacture ) is not the product to buy... the Henry's made in America, & some buy, but most SASS shooters think them too heavy & clunky to shoot at SASS competitions... Ruger already make SASS specific revolvers... just seems odd they have never ventured into the cowboy style lever guns."
+1 great post...but not just for CASS, but us general shooters as well that just happen to like the "traditional western" guns,... though CASS understandably would be the primary marketing motivation. A Win 92 design hasn't been made in the U.S. since, what, 1941? I've got and enjoy several Rossis, and the Chiappa 92s are very nice but pricey. A high quality, American-made 92 would be the cat's meow. The 92 would be the winner IMO as it could have significant market application beyond just CASS. And...an affordable Win 94 doesn't look like it'll be here any time soon, regardless of foreign or domestic ((sorry, Mossberg doesn't count!). When they came out with the Colt Lightning pump-action repro, for awhile there was hope that USFA would also step up and make a 92 or at least 73, but rumor abounds that they're struggling--and a USFA Win clone would be pricey up there with the Italians anyway--Ruger would seem to be the only one that could step up.
" personally I think alot of CASS shooters would buy American if they had the chance ( & that is actually a quite large market )... Marlin right now ( new manufacture ) is not the product to buy... the Henry's made in America, & some buy, but most SASS shooters think them too heavy & clunky to shoot at SASS competitions... Ruger already make SASS specific revolvers... just seems odd they have never ventured into the cowboy style lever guns."
+1 great post...but not just for CASS, but us general shooters as well that just happen to like the "traditional western" guns,... though CASS understandably would be the primary marketing motivation. A Win 92 design hasn't been made in the U.S. since, what, 1941? I've got and enjoy several Rossis, and the Chiappa 92s are very nice but pricey. A high quality, American-made 92 would be the cat's meow. The 92 would be the winner IMO as it could have significant market application beyond just CASS. And...an affordable Win 94 doesn't look like it'll be here any time soon, regardless of foreign or domestic ((sorry, Mossberg doesn't count!). When they came out with the Colt Lightning pump-action repro, for awhile there was hope that USFA would also step up and make a 92 or at least 73, but rumor abounds that they're struggling--and a USFA Win clone would be pricey up there with the Italians anyway--Ruger would seem to be the only one that could step up.
I seriously doubt there'd be enough market for Ruger to bother.
The CAS movement has peaked, there are existing '92 variants to supply most of the nostalgia demand at two different price levels, and the '92 would be something of a niche market.
Ruger was making single-action revolvers long before CAS ever came about, the demand for them remains strong independent of the cowboy shooters, and it only required some modifications to produce the Vaqueros, not an entire R&D program from scratch.
Consider also that such a '92 would use cast & MIM parts extensively, which some potential buyers would find objectionable.
Denis
The CAS movement has peaked, there are existing '92 variants to supply most of the nostalgia demand at two different price levels, and the '92 would be something of a niche market.
Ruger was making single-action revolvers long before CAS ever came about, the demand for them remains strong independent of the cowboy shooters, and it only required some modifications to produce the Vaqueros, not an entire R&D program from scratch.
Consider also that such a '92 would use cast & MIM parts extensively, which some potential buyers would find objectionable.
Denis
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/ruger_96.pdf
Unfortunately they stopped making them but they are out there and if enough people wanted them I bet market demand would put them on the shelf quickly.
Unfortunately they stopped making them but they are out there and if enough people wanted them I bet market demand would put them on the shelf quickly.
DPris said:
"I seriously doubt there'd be enough market for Ruger to bother.The CAS movement has peaked, there are existing '92 variants to supply most of the nostalgia demand at two different price levels, and the '92 would be something of a niche market.Ruger was making single-action revolvers long before CAS ever came about, the demand for them remains strong independent of the cowboy shooters, and it only required some modifications to produce the Vaqueros, not an entire R&D program from scratch.Consider also that such a '92 would use cast & MIM parts extensively, which some potential buyers would find objectionable."
Denis, as usual you hit a number of nails on the head. We were just wishing out loud for a decent American-made lever
. To add to your list of why not's, such a gun would probably be all lawyered up as well like the Japanese Winnies are, as well as Rossis. The Chiappas are there without such "features," albeit at a price.
"I seriously doubt there'd be enough market for Ruger to bother.The CAS movement has peaked, there are existing '92 variants to supply most of the nostalgia demand at two different price levels, and the '92 would be something of a niche market.Ruger was making single-action revolvers long before CAS ever came about, the demand for them remains strong independent of the cowboy shooters, and it only required some modifications to produce the Vaqueros, not an entire R&D program from scratch.Consider also that such a '92 would use cast & MIM parts extensively, which some potential buyers would find objectionable."
Denis, as usual you hit a number of nails on the head. We were just wishing out loud for a decent American-made lever
. To add to your list of why not's, such a gun would probably be all lawyered up as well like the Japanese Winnies are, as well as Rossis. The Chiappas are there without such "features," albeit at a price.Gak,
Yup, that's me, I'm a head hitter.
You don't know how much I would personally love a good domestic '92, made with forgings in the "old" way, to the original design, without safeties and rebounding hammers and barrel warnings, and I'd be quite happy to go up to $800 or so to get it.
I bugged the old Winchester/USRAC for years to build one.
That'll never happen, unfortunately.
In the meantime we have Miroku at the top, Chiappa next, and Rossi.
Different price levels, different quality levels.
People don't like Miroku guns because they're Japanese, expensive, and not true to the original Browning design.
People do tend to like the Chiappas, with good quality, slightly better pricing, and a closer adherence to the original no-safety pattern.
People buy the Rossis because they're workable guns at affordable price levels, despite the roughness, oversprung actions, and the silly wing safety.
If Ruger built a 92, it'd be altered somewhat internally to fit their manufacturing paradigm, it'd have a barrel warning, it'd almost certainly have a safety on it somewhere, and it'd be a perfectly viable gun, but it'd use castings & MIMs and it'd price itself somewhere above the Rossi & somewhere below the Miroku. Some of those features would affect interest & sales among '92 buyers.
Ruger fans would buy a few, people who don't know the difference between a Rossi and an original Winchester ("Hey, it gots that finger flippy thingy & it shoots, same thing, right? Gun's a gun, right?") would buy one, a few CAS people would try one out (even there, the '92 is not all that popular), but it wouldn't sell in sufficient numbers to justify development.
In the meantime, whenever I get the urge to let my Steve Young'ed ringlever Rossi .45 Colt go as part of a herd thinning, it ends up staying on.
I've had the Chiappa '92 & the Miroku '92 here, both nice, but the little Rossi is slick & slim, widdout safeties (mine was surgically removed), and I don't have to worry about dinging up a high-dollar gun.
In the '92 world, I think pricing is a great factor in sales, and I'm not sure how many people would be willing to go $600-$800 for a Ruger version.
Denis
Yup, that's me, I'm a head hitter.
You don't know how much I would personally love a good domestic '92, made with forgings in the "old" way, to the original design, without safeties and rebounding hammers and barrel warnings, and I'd be quite happy to go up to $800 or so to get it.
I bugged the old Winchester/USRAC for years to build one.
That'll never happen, unfortunately.
In the meantime we have Miroku at the top, Chiappa next, and Rossi.
Different price levels, different quality levels.
People don't like Miroku guns because they're Japanese, expensive, and not true to the original Browning design.
People do tend to like the Chiappas, with good quality, slightly better pricing, and a closer adherence to the original no-safety pattern.
People buy the Rossis because they're workable guns at affordable price levels, despite the roughness, oversprung actions, and the silly wing safety.
If Ruger built a 92, it'd be altered somewhat internally to fit their manufacturing paradigm, it'd have a barrel warning, it'd almost certainly have a safety on it somewhere, and it'd be a perfectly viable gun, but it'd use castings & MIMs and it'd price itself somewhere above the Rossi & somewhere below the Miroku. Some of those features would affect interest & sales among '92 buyers.
Ruger fans would buy a few, people who don't know the difference between a Rossi and an original Winchester ("Hey, it gots that finger flippy thingy & it shoots, same thing, right? Gun's a gun, right?") would buy one, a few CAS people would try one out (even there, the '92 is not all that popular), but it wouldn't sell in sufficient numbers to justify development.
In the meantime, whenever I get the urge to let my Steve Young'ed ringlever Rossi .45 Colt go as part of a herd thinning, it ends up staying on.
I've had the Chiappa '92 & the Miroku '92 here, both nice, but the little Rossi is slick & slim, widdout safeties (mine was surgically removed), and I don't have to worry about dinging up a high-dollar gun.
In the '92 world, I think pricing is a great factor in sales, and I'm not sure how many people would be willing to go $600-$800 for a Ruger version.
Denis
Denis, I hear ya. All of my Rossi 92s are no-safeties (from the get-go) being either Interarms or Pre 2006 EMFs, and I like 'em all. My first was a .44-40 carbine bought new about 1979 or 80, a sweetheart of a shooter which I sold to a friend. Over the years I lucked out with nary an issue among them, and even the stiffest ones (only a few and pretty mild at that) smoothed up nicely with some levering and shooting. I'd like to put some real walnut from Precision on at least one of them, but at least none are of the late Interarms black mystery stain period. The Brownings are the gems of course, but I'm reluctant to bang them around as much.
Like you, while I sure like the idea of a new, US-built gun of the original forged pattern--I think perhaps USFA was the last hope for such to do it right--I agree that Ruger (or anyone else) is not likely to happen or, even if so, "correctly" - without all the junk you so eloquently enumerated.
Like you, while I sure like the idea of a new, US-built gun of the original forged pattern--I think perhaps USFA was the last hope for such to do it right--I agree that Ruger (or anyone else) is not likely to happen or, even if so, "correctly" - without all the junk you so eloquently enumerated.
aarondhgraham
New member
Aarond's Law - #1,,,
Whenever you ask a question, stop at the word "why",,,
And answer, "Money".
You'll be right most of the time.
The reason Ruger doesn't make any lever-guns is,,,
They must not think there is any money in it for them.
It's that simple.
Aarond
Whenever you ask a question, stop at the word "why",,,
And answer, "Money".
You'll be right most of the time.
The reason Ruger doesn't make any lever-guns is,,,
They must not think there is any money in it for them.
It's that simple.
Aarond
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
lever action rifles in pistol calibers are pretty hot right now, especially in 38 / 357... & it took me a month to find a 45 Colt I'd settle for, another older Rossi ( this one stainless & Brass )... been quite happy with my engraved pre safety Rossi in 38 / 357... but I think Mrs. Magnum has adopted that one... 1st thing my new 45 has done is plug the lil safety flipper... after I make sure it'll feed my currently loaded 45 Colt handloads... if not... I may have to keep it a little longer until I find a good COL for function, before giving it up to my machinist...
BTW I think Ruger does some cowboy revolvers ( the SASS model ) without the warning??? ... so it's possible if they made a replica Winchester, they might make a version true to the original ???
BTW I think Ruger does some cowboy revolvers ( the SASS model ) without the warning??? ... so it's possible if they made a replica Winchester, they might make a version true to the original ???
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
I know the warning was on the barrels of my Montados... but thought I saw a SASS special & don't remember seeing the warning... but you may be correct that I either just didn't notice it, or they may have moved it to a less obvious place...
I had to polish out the remaining warning on my Montado I had cut to a snubbie... which was actually pretty easy to do on the polished finish guns
I had to polish out the remaining warning on my Montado I had cut to a snubbie... which was actually pretty easy to do on the polished finish guns
bamaranger
New member
Ruger
I believe the bean counters now run Ruger exclusively. Bill Ruger had some ideas on his company and the firearms it sold, whether it was for profit or not. I read once a quote where Bill Ruger stated his affection for the Old Army and how it would always be made as long as he was living.
Correct. It, and a bunch of other niche Rugers fell by the wayside shortly just before or after his death. The .44 carbines, the 96 lever, are further examples. More the pity.
I believe the bean counters now run Ruger exclusively. Bill Ruger had some ideas on his company and the firearms it sold, whether it was for profit or not. I read once a quote where Bill Ruger stated his affection for the Old Army and how it would always be made as long as he was living.
Correct. It, and a bunch of other niche Rugers fell by the wayside shortly just before or after his death. The .44 carbines, the 96 lever, are further examples. More the pity.