Ruger SP101 vs. 3" K-frame

S

shanewomer

New member
I have a S&W .357 Model 65, with a 4" barrel.

I am thinking about getting:

Another 65 with a 3" barrel, or a Ruger SP101 with 2 1/4" barrel. Both in .357 mag caliber.

I have heard a lot about the durability of the Rugers, being able to handle lots of tough loads, and I was wondering how the two above mentioned guns would compare, since I'm comparing a K frame against the smaller of the two Rugers - GP/SP.

#1. Which one is more durable, and could handle more/tougher loads?

#2. Which one is smaller?

#3. Which one is lighter weight?
 
I don't have the specs on the S&W Model 65, but the 2 1/4" barrel Ruger SP101 is 7 1/8" long and weighs 25.5 oz.

To answer your questions:

1. Ruger
2. S&W
3. S&W - the SP101 is a tank!

I carry a SP101 because it can handle Magnum loads with ease.
 
The SP101 is the more durable of the two. You'll be hard pressed to wear out a Ruger under normal conditions. K-Frame .357's (I assume you're not getting a .38) can have problems if fed a steady diet of full-power .357 ammo (going out of time, eroding forcing cones). A K-frame will be OK if you only fire the hot stuff occasionally and practice mainly with .38's or light .357's (110grn). As to size and weight I couldn't tell you as I've never handled a SP101. My dad has a 3" Taurus model 66 which is about the same size as a K-Frame and I did not find it too large or heavy for concealed carry. Also note that a K-frame will hold six rounds but an SP101 will only hold five. Have you considered a GP-100 with a 3" barrel or a used Security or Speed Six with a 2 3/4" barrel? They will hold six shots and still be more durable than a Smith. I also suggest a 3" or longer (2 3/4" is close enough) on whatever you get for two reasons
1. Ballistics are superior
2. 3" or thereabouts is the shortest barrel that will still have a full
length ejector rod
 
Even though the Ruger I'm asking about (SP101 with 2 1/4" barrel) has a shorter barrel and less rounds, it's still heavier than a 3" K frame that holds 6 rounds?

And you say the Ruger is larger too? With it's shorter barrel and less rounds?
 
No one said that the SP101 was larger or heavier than a K-frame. It could be, but I really wouldn't know as I've never handled one. Rugers are usually larger and heavier than their competitors because they're overbuilt. The
SP101 and the K-frame are not in the same class, however. The SP101 is a small frame revolver wheras the K-frame is a medium frame. The GP-100 is a better equivalent to the K-frame and the J-frame is a better equivalent to the SP101. Seeing as how Rugers are overbuilt, I would guess that a K-frame and the SP101 would be roughly the same size and weight. Once again I don't know for sure as I've not handled both. Why not go to a gun shop and try both and then make up your own mind based upon that.
 
The reason I was asking is because I was going to buy a 3" K-frame.

But I started thinking about how everyone says the Rugers are so tough, and I wondered if possibly the SP101 might be smaller or lighter.

If it is, AND it's tougher, maybe I'd prefer that. Know what I mean?

I understand how there is a smaller S&W J frame, and a larger Ruger GP. But I know the Ruger GP would be heavier than the 3" K frame, and for that reason i'd prefer the K frame. But what about the SP?
 
I am also trying to make the same decision. The SP101 3' is listed at 27oz and a M65 3' is listed at 31oz (I believe). Obviously, the 65 has 6 shots vs. 5 on the SP101. From everything I've read the SP101 is better over the long run if you plan on shooting a lot of .357. I do know that the SP101 stock triggers are quite heavy and may require a trigger job to match up to the M65 (never fired one myself).
 
K frames are out of production, I think...I hear all this talk about Rugers being tough. Well my SP-101 sure was tough! It was a tough tool that didn't function. When it did, it had a trigger from hell. (not my words) I have fired two other SP-101's and the triggers suck!!!

The M66 is a sweet shooting gun. I own two and I really don't worry about wearing them out.
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So before anyone suggests I hate Rugers, I own a GP-100 and it has nice trigger action. I also own a Service Six, Vaquero, P95D, and P345D...
So my advice is to buy the 3" M66 because the GP-100 maybe too heavy for carry...

Good Luck... :)
 
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Well, I can't offer any definitive proof either way, but I asked the same question several years ago and got a number of responses. Some of those responses were from some long-time posters who were quite knowledgeable and in the "gun trades", i.e. long-time writers and/or pistolsmiths, etc. They were posters who had convinced me they knew quite a bit more than me. Anyway, I had both a 3 inch SP-101 and a 3 inch Model 65. The consensus at that time was that the SP-101 was the stronger of the two, if not the most refined. The minimum response was that the SP was "at least as" strong as the K-frame and most thought stronger. Eventually, I traded away the 65 (which was a mistake I still regret) and kept the SP, and since have gotten another SP. I LOVE the SP-101. As I remember my 3 inch 65 weighed approx 32 ounces empty. My 3 inch SP weighs 27 ounces empty. The SP is smaller in every dimension. A little bit in length. A fair amount in height. A fair amount in width (due to the 5 shot cylinder). The amount of metal, however, in the cylinder, the topstrap and around the forcing cone, and the yoke, is at least as much in the SP as in the larger Model 65. I have no problem believing the little Ruger to be as strong or stronger than the K-frame. I am certain the lockwork is more robust. Anyway, my experience and my opinion. Hope it's useful to you. The Model 65 is a beautiful revolver thought, especially in three-inch trim. Mine was an LS with enclose ejector rod. I miss it but don't want that infernal lock they have on the new ones.
 
"...the triggers suck!!!..." Yep. That's why a trigger job is required on all new firearms. Frivolous law suits and the cost of producing good triggers(it's hand work) have caused the manufacturers to sell their products with poor triggers.
 
Smith has replaced it with a slightly larger L (? someone correct me here) model that looks pretty nice. Unless the priority is CC, I say SW-K IF not intending--as folks have said--a steady diet of hot loads or the GP 100 if you are--OR whichever of the two floats your boat the most! I wouldn't put up with a 5 shot'er like the 101 as a non-CC--to me the only place for one of them is a CC function--but that's just MO.
 
The three-inch K-frame .357 Magnum (Models 13, 65, and 65LS) are far more shootable than the SP-101 (grip size, ergonomics, trigger etc.).

The .357 Magnum K-frames ARE out of production so you're looking at either old stock or used.

The K-frame with reasonable loads (avoid the old 125-grain SJHPs and the heavy hunting loads) will outlast most shooters by a goodly margin (that's not to say the SP-101 isn't stronger). With a little common sense, I doubt if anybody will notice a difference in strength at least for a couple of generations of shooters.

Unless you're going to stick it in your pocket or on your ankle, the K-frame is probably the better choice by far (just based on its shootability).
 
The Ruger SP101 is a little smaller than the S&W K-frame. However, it is stronger than the K-frame. If the SP101 was equal in size to the K-frame-then, it would be able to hold 6-rounds(Instead of only 5-rounds). The SP101 is sized in between an S&W J-frame and the S&W K-frame. And(As others have said above!)as with all Ruger's, the SP101 is built like a tank! The trigger can be worked on to make it better(Or, at least acceptable!)but, it still won't match the trigger on the older K-frames! But, the older K-frames are not without their share of problems(Especially with the constant shooting of .357 magnum rounds, which these guns were not designed for!)however, the Ruger's are a different story(As they are very strong!)! The choice is yours? :eek:
 
I am more confused now than before. Every other post someone says something different.

Basically, it seems that the Ruger SP101 is "at-least" as strong, if not stronger, than the S&W K-frame, AND it's smaller. I want this for CC, so the Ruger is sounding tempting. And I only have to lose one round for all that. It sure seems worth it. I love my 65 with a 4" barrel, but I'm getting tired of people saying I can't shoot this or that out of it. I want to be able to take my CC piece to the range and shoot what I want.

I have two more questions.

#1. I'm not interested in the GP100, because I'm looking for a CC .357 revo, that's why I asked about the SP101, but I'm curious, what's the difference between the Service Six and the GP100?

#2. I've heard a lot about how the forcing cone can get damaged on a S&W K-frame. How can I tell if mine's damaged? I've got a pinned & recessed one that I just bought, so it's pretty old. Even though it looks to be in good condition, I wouldn't know what to look for about the forcing cone issue.

Shane
 
Shanewomer:

Let's take it a little slower this time, regarding your questions:

1)First, although the S&W K-frames aren't as strong as the Ruger SPSP101, Service-Six, Security-Six, Speed-Six, GP100, it is still plenty strong! If you shoot mostly .38's(Or, .38+P's)and just a moderate amount of .357 magnum ammo, you will not be harming your K-frame! Just don't shoot too many 125 grain .357 magnum's-as these will erode and damage the forcing cone(In due time!)and, the gun will shoot loose(Sooner rather than later)! Shoot the heavier weight .357 magnum ammo and you will be fine!

2)On your K-frame, look at the forcing cone(In the 6-O-clock position)with a magnafying lense in good lighting. What you will be looking for, is a fine crack in this location-as there is a flat spot(By design)in this position, that makes the wall thickness thinner-and, therefore the reason for the cracking problem! Also look for forcing cone erosion? The edges of the forcing cone should be sharp and not look worn away?

3)The difference between a Ruger Service-Six and a GP100, is that this gun(Along with it's brethren, the Security-Six and the Speed-Six)is very close in size to an S&W K-frame and is easier to handle, easier to carry, and is easier to conceal! Although the GP100 is a marginally stronger revolver(By virtue of it's larger frame size and having the lock built into the front of the crane, the service-Six(And it's brethren)were also super strong guns(Especially for their medium frame size!)and therefore strength was never a problem with these revolvers(In the same sense as it was for the S&W K-frames)! Both the Service-Six and the Speed-Six, have "Fixed" sights-wheras the Security-Six has the adjustable sights. The Service-Six and Speed-six, differ only with the speed-Six having a round-butt grip frame(With the Service-Six having a square butt grip frame)and, the Security-Six has the same square butt, grip frame, as the Service-Six(Also named the Police Service-Six). Both the Service-Six(And, the Speed-Six)came in barrel lengths of 2-3/4". 3.0"(More rare), and 4.0". The Security-Six, also came in these barrel lengths-but also, in the 6" barrel length! These are excellent revolvers! They hold 6-rounds! The GP100 came in both the "Fixed" sights and with "Adjustable" sights(In barrel lengths of 3" and 4"(With "Fixed sights)and in 4" and 6" with "Adjustable sights! All of these guns mentioned here, came in blued or stainless! The available calibers(On production guns)were .38special & .357 magnum, and some were in 9MM. The Security-Six(Except for some very early models!)was only available in .357 magnum caliber!

4)My recommendation: If you want a Ruger-then, my pick would be either a Service-Six or speed-Six because of having the fixed sights and because they are the same approximate weight(And size)of an S&W K-frame(In any equivalent barrel length)! Although the "Fixed" sight 3.0" GP100 is a good gun, to me, it is too bulky for carrying it! If you want a smaller Ruger(And, if having 5-shots, doesn't bother you?)then, the SP101 is also a good, strong, reliable gun(Except that the trigger isn't quite as good as the "Six-Series revolvers or the newer GP100's!)! Lastly, If you want to get a 3" S&W K-fame-this is still a nice revolver(With a great trigger, in the older models!)and will be strong enough(As long as you don't try to kill it by shooting "Hot" .357 magnum loads, continuously(This is the key word here!)!

5)Since I happen to own a Security-Six, Service-Six, and a Speed-Six(All with the 2-3/4" barrel length)Ihave included the following pictures of them for you to view:
Service-Six(.357)square butt:
f8f2c81b.jpg

Speed-Six(.357)round butt:
82daca52.jpg

Service-Six and Speed-Six shown together(Note that the Speed-Six, is a later gun, that had the dimple in the right side recoil shield):
98f87a8b.jpg

Security-Six(.357)square butt:
91925a66.jpg
 
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