Ruger sp 101 or sw mp compact
- Thread starter mrt949
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Billy Shears
New member
Well, what are you knocking down?
I have often heard the .357 referred to as the "Mother of all Manstoppers" ...at least as far as handgun calibers go, but the .40 is no slouch in that department and the M&P can sure hold a lot more of them.
The problem I always had with my SP101 shooting .357 ammo was the muzzle blast was horrible. Of course my barrel was ported, but even in non-ported guns .357 makes an awful loud noise. No fun to shoot and it made me flinch, which made me less accurate, which is a bad thing if you only have 5 rounds to begin with.
357. MAG makes a BIG BOOM IN DOORS .The 40 SW is just as bad,I havent tried any SHORT BARREL AMMO .The RUGER works best for right now due to physical problems .FIVE SHOTS is better than none. WHAT AM I KNOCKING DOWN .ANNY THING THAT THREATNES ME OR MY FAMILY .MAN OR BEAST if I cannot get away.
peacefulgary
New member
Well, if you need to "knock down" more than 5 targets without reloading then you had best go with the M&P. 
I have both of these guns. I really like both. But which one is more practical? Carry: the M&Pc. Weight: the M&Pc. Capacity...Reloading speed...Size (slimness): the M&Pc. Caliber ("knockdown power"): either is just fine for your purposes.
The M&Pc is by far the more practical gun. That said, I really do like my SP101. I just don't know what purpose it serves, other than I just like it and have fun shooting it on occasion.
The M&Pc is by far the more practical gun. That said, I really do like my SP101. I just don't know what purpose it serves, other than I just like it and have fun shooting it on occasion.
Madcap_Magician
New member
Neither. There is no such thing as "knockdown power."
If a cartridge was capable of knocking a person down upon impact, it would also probably knock down the shooter (Thanks Sir Isaac Newton).
The tendency of people to fall down when shot is almost entirely psychological. When people are aware that they have been shot, they tend to fall down, regardless of the caliber with which they were shot. People who are unaware that they have been shot frequently stay standing, and people who know that being shot doesn't mean they need to stop moving can also frequently stay standing.
Both guns should be of about equal power. If you have the 2.25" SP101, your .357 magnum may come out the loser, as the .357's vaunted reputation as a manstopper is largely due to the performance of 125-gr. bullets at 1300-1450 fps, which takes a 4"-6" barrel to accomplish. A 3" barrel with Federal 125-gr. JHPs moves at about 1250 fps, but out of a 2" snubby barrel, it's only going 950.
The .40 S&W from a 3.5" barrel on an M&P is firing a 180-gr. bullet at about 980 fps.
Both should be suitable for self defense... it's a matter of personal preference.
If a cartridge was capable of knocking a person down upon impact, it would also probably knock down the shooter (Thanks Sir Isaac Newton).
The tendency of people to fall down when shot is almost entirely psychological. When people are aware that they have been shot, they tend to fall down, regardless of the caliber with which they were shot. People who are unaware that they have been shot frequently stay standing, and people who know that being shot doesn't mean they need to stop moving can also frequently stay standing.
Both guns should be of about equal power. If you have the 2.25" SP101, your .357 magnum may come out the loser, as the .357's vaunted reputation as a manstopper is largely due to the performance of 125-gr. bullets at 1300-1450 fps, which takes a 4"-6" barrel to accomplish. A 3" barrel with Federal 125-gr. JHPs moves at about 1250 fps, but out of a 2" snubby barrel, it's only going 950.
The .40 S&W from a 3.5" barrel on an M&P is firing a 180-gr. bullet at about 980 fps.
Both should be suitable for self defense... it's a matter of personal preference.
The reason for the pitiful performance of Federal ammo in the 357 is that Federal doesn't really load a magnum round. They cut the nuts off it. Every time I see the argument put forward that .357 performance out of a short barrel is not that great it's always because the load being used is a not really a full magnum load. When loaded to full potential the .357 trounces the .40 out of any barrel length. Double-Tap loads all their ammo to peak performance and is within standard pressure so they are a better comparison. A .357 out of a 1 7/8" barrel has more energy than the .40 S&W out of a 4.5" one. I carry DT's 125 or 158 gr .357 loads depending on if I am in the woods or around town. The recoil of both is stout in my SP101 but both are perfectly manageable. The .40 and the .357 will both get the job done. It's more a question of what platform do you prefer to carry.
.357 125gr load using Winchester SJHP
1750fps / 6" S&W 686 849 ft/lbs
1600fps / 4" Ruger GP-100 710 ft/lbs
1425fps / 1 7/8" S&W 563ft/lbs
.40 S&W 180gr load using Nosler JHP
1050fps / 3.5" bbl 441 ft/lbs
1140fps / 4.5" bbl 520 ft/lbs
If you reload for the .357 Win 296 and Lil'Gun top loads will get you to the Double-Tap performance numbers.
.357 125gr load using Winchester SJHP
1750fps / 6" S&W 686 849 ft/lbs
1600fps / 4" Ruger GP-100 710 ft/lbs
1425fps / 1 7/8" S&W 563ft/lbs
.40 S&W 180gr load using Nosler JHP
1050fps / 3.5" bbl 441 ft/lbs
1140fps / 4.5" bbl 520 ft/lbs
If you reload for the .357 Win 296 and Lil'Gun top loads will get you to the Double-Tap performance numbers.
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Super Sneaky Steve
New member
The SP clearly has more knock down power. If you walk up to the bad guy and smack him on the head with both guns the SS framed SP will knock him down way better than any poly framed pistol.
Per the numbers (velocity and energy) a normal (Winchester, Remington, Federal, Speer, Hornady) 155gr .40 S&W loading and a normal 158gr .357 Magnum loading are quite similar. Both will normally run in the 1200-1250fps range from a full-sized service type gun (4" barrel semi-auto for the .40 and 4" revolver for the .357) and in the 1100-1150fps range from a compact gun (3" barrel semi-auto for the .40 and 2" barrel for the .357).
Lighter bullets are also, per the numbers, quite similar as a 135gr .40 will normally run in the 1300-1350fps range from a full-size gun while the slightly lighter 125gr .357's will typically run in the 1400-1450fps range from a 4" revolver.
Numbers, however, is where the similarities between the two cartridges ends. .40 S&W, for the most part, performs about like most other service-type semi-auto cartridges (9mm, .357 Sig, and .45 ACP). With modern premium loadings, penetration in bare gelatin usually runs in the 12-14" range with expansion in the .55-.70" range while weight retention is usually 90% or more. This seems to be about the best performance that can be had with bullets that are limited by the necessity of feeding reliability in a semi-automatic handgun.
.357 Magnum loadings, however, do not share the same design constraints as semi-auto loadings do because the .357 Magnum is primarily a revolver cartridge and feeding reliability is a non-issue in that platform. If semi-auto like performance is desired, many loadings such as Remington's 125gr Golden Saber, Cor-Bon's 125gr DPX, and Winchester's 125gr PDX1 can deliver it, but other .357 Magnum loadings are capable of performance that isn't possible with a semi-auto round. The older semi-jacketed loadings, particularly the 125gr Remington and Federal versions, are some of the few handgun cartridges capable of producing significant fragmentation while still meeting the FBI's 12" minimum penetration standard. Heavier fully-jacketed loadings like Winchester's 145gr Silvertip, Federal's 158gr Hydra-Shok, and Speer's 158gr Gold Dot are capable of delivering expansion and weight retention similar to the semi-auto loadings but penetration depths of 16-20"
Also, once you step outside of 'normal' loadings and start looking at what's available from boutique makers like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Grizzly, the .357 Magnum is capable of much higher velocities and energies than even the boutique .40 S&W loadings (at this point, the .357 Magnum is much more comparable to a full-power 10mm Auto). This is because the .357 Magnum was originally loaded all-out with 1930's powders and primers. Over the years, the cartridge has been downloaded substantially and has not seen nearly the load development over the last 30 years that the semi-auto rounds have. When loaded to its full potential, the .357 Magnum is capable of spectacular ballistics that rival low-end .41 Magnum loadings.
The .40 S&W, on the other hand, was developed over 50 years later than the .357 Magnum and has not been downloaded. As such loading it to the ragged edge provides much more modest ballistic improvements because it's normal loadings are already nearly topped-out.
Ballistics and terminal performance, however, are not the end of the story. Even with comparable loadings, a .357 Magnum revolver will have substantially more felt recoil than a .40 Semi-Auto of similar size and weight. Also, both cartridges are normally found in different platforms which offer significant advantages and disadvantages to each other which have been discussed thoroughly in other threads. In my mind, the choice between them really boils down to whether you prefer a revolver or a semi-automatic as either one is a perfectly capable defensive cartridge that will serve you well so long as you do your part. I personally like the .357 Magnum better, but that's mainly because I'm a revolver guy.
Lighter bullets are also, per the numbers, quite similar as a 135gr .40 will normally run in the 1300-1350fps range from a full-size gun while the slightly lighter 125gr .357's will typically run in the 1400-1450fps range from a 4" revolver.
Numbers, however, is where the similarities between the two cartridges ends. .40 S&W, for the most part, performs about like most other service-type semi-auto cartridges (9mm, .357 Sig, and .45 ACP). With modern premium loadings, penetration in bare gelatin usually runs in the 12-14" range with expansion in the .55-.70" range while weight retention is usually 90% or more. This seems to be about the best performance that can be had with bullets that are limited by the necessity of feeding reliability in a semi-automatic handgun.
.357 Magnum loadings, however, do not share the same design constraints as semi-auto loadings do because the .357 Magnum is primarily a revolver cartridge and feeding reliability is a non-issue in that platform. If semi-auto like performance is desired, many loadings such as Remington's 125gr Golden Saber, Cor-Bon's 125gr DPX, and Winchester's 125gr PDX1 can deliver it, but other .357 Magnum loadings are capable of performance that isn't possible with a semi-auto round. The older semi-jacketed loadings, particularly the 125gr Remington and Federal versions, are some of the few handgun cartridges capable of producing significant fragmentation while still meeting the FBI's 12" minimum penetration standard. Heavier fully-jacketed loadings like Winchester's 145gr Silvertip, Federal's 158gr Hydra-Shok, and Speer's 158gr Gold Dot are capable of delivering expansion and weight retention similar to the semi-auto loadings but penetration depths of 16-20"
Also, once you step outside of 'normal' loadings and start looking at what's available from boutique makers like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Grizzly, the .357 Magnum is capable of much higher velocities and energies than even the boutique .40 S&W loadings (at this point, the .357 Magnum is much more comparable to a full-power 10mm Auto). This is because the .357 Magnum was originally loaded all-out with 1930's powders and primers. Over the years, the cartridge has been downloaded substantially and has not seen nearly the load development over the last 30 years that the semi-auto rounds have. When loaded to its full potential, the .357 Magnum is capable of spectacular ballistics that rival low-end .41 Magnum loadings.
The .40 S&W, on the other hand, was developed over 50 years later than the .357 Magnum and has not been downloaded. As such loading it to the ragged edge provides much more modest ballistic improvements because it's normal loadings are already nearly topped-out.
Ballistics and terminal performance, however, are not the end of the story. Even with comparable loadings, a .357 Magnum revolver will have substantially more felt recoil than a .40 Semi-Auto of similar size and weight. Also, both cartridges are normally found in different platforms which offer significant advantages and disadvantages to each other which have been discussed thoroughly in other threads. In my mind, the choice between them really boils down to whether you prefer a revolver or a semi-automatic as either one is a perfectly capable defensive cartridge that will serve you well so long as you do your part. I personally like the .357 Magnum better, but that's mainly because I'm a revolver guy.
Kreyzhorse
New member
Neither round really has knock down power.
As a self defense round, either are good choices assuming you hit what you are aiming for. The real question is what are you most accurate with? What is more reliable?
As a self defense round, either are good choices assuming you hit what you are aiming for. The real question is what are you most accurate with? What is more reliable?
mrt949,
If the Ruger SP101 works best for you use it.
Webleymkv made an excellent post.
The 125 gr JHP .357 Mag is still considered to have the best stopping potential on two legged threats for a handgun cartridge. The reason you are seeing the lighter bullets like 135 gr and 155 gr in .40 S&W is they are trying to duplicate the bullet performance of the 125 gr JHP in .357 Mag. However, you still need to have good bullet placement.
If the Ruger SP101 works best for you use it.
Webleymkv made an excellent post.
The 125 gr JHP .357 Mag is still considered to have the best stopping potential on two legged threats for a handgun cartridge. The reason you are seeing the lighter bullets like 135 gr and 155 gr in .40 S&W is they are trying to duplicate the bullet performance of the 125 gr JHP in .357 Mag. However, you still need to have good bullet placement.