ruger old army can be loaded to 44mag velocity

A

andrewstorm

Moderator
I"ve heard that a ruger old army revolver can be loaded to 44 mag velocitys,with compressed 777 ? I have 190 gr buffalo 457 conicals,and 220 gr lee bullets,and 255 gr hornady cowboy bullets.anybody chronographed these loads with as much 777 as u can fit in a stock cylinder.
 
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I dunno, never tried triple 7. I have chronographed .457 roundballs at 1150 fps using all the Goex 4Fg that the chambers will hold but that still does not equal a .44 magnum, either in velocity or bullet weight.

.457 ball = 143 grains

The chrono was about 10 ft away from the muzzle, any closer and I get problems with errors when shooting black powder loads so the actual muzzle velocity may have been around 1200 fps.

"All the powder the chambers will hold"=40 grains

If you want a .44 magnum, buy a .44 magnum.
 
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well, the Walker could push a .44 conical with about 60grn behind it... I don't know the math on that, but it seems pretty massive.
 
Posted by TFL member mec in a user review about the 190 grain Buffalo Bullets on the Dixie Gun Works website:


...I ordered them for the Ruger Old Army- a revolver set up around .457" balls and bullets. They loaded in a straight line and the optimum load provided a five shot group of 1.8" at 60 feet. Best consistency among loads tested was identical volume of Hodgdon's H777 to 40 grains of black powder.
Chronographed velocity/ calculated energy was:

40Gr./Vol. H 777 1066 fps 51fps spread 479ft/lbs

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...22_99_311_313&products_id=3631&reviews_id=566
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479 ft/lbs approximates the energy of a .357 Sig which produces 475 ft/lbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy
 
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The chambers can be safely bored deeper for a little more powder capacity but it will never match .44Mag velocities. Not with blackpowder and not in a percussion pistol.
 
Even if you could match a .44 magnum's velocity, you have to consider that lead bullets have their limits. Full power .44 magnum bullets are jacketed for a reason.
 
Even if you could match a .44 magnum's velocity, you have to consider that lead bullets have their limits. Full power .44 magnum bullets are jacketed for a reason.
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I know hunters that push lead awfully fast, by paper patching.
 
Jacketed bullets have no advantage over cast bullets in the .44Mag. As long as you match the hardness to velocity, cast bullets can be pushed just as hard and the resultant loss of friction yields higher velocities for a given pressure.
 
I think the real advantage of jacketed bullets is that it allows the core of the bullet to be soft lead for maximum expansion in game while having a copper skin to engage the rifling. Think of it as a copper patched lead bullet.

I would imagine that hard cast bullets would be very hard to seat in the cylinder of a cap 'n ball revolver with a normal loading lever.
 
Well the walker and the varrients of it weigh 5lbs and it has a massive frame compaired to any 44. I would imagine it would explode or warp the frame if you were lucky. The 60 grains cause a real good kick and causes the loading lever to pop off BP revlvers are not designed to have a copper jacket round put in it becuse of the pressure behind it. If you want to have a jacketed round try sabbots.
 
I have used 200 grain SWC bullets out of a Lee mould (looks like H&G 68 I believe). They worked fine cast of wheel weights. Does not compare even to a .357 Magnum, but works well.

For pressure issues, keep in mind that all that is sealing the breech is a little copper cup being mashed by a hammer. Don't try to make this into a gun that it is not.

- Ivan.
 
I think the real advantage of jacketed bullets is that it allows the core of the bullet to be soft lead for maximum expansion in game while having a copper skin to engage the rifling.
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Many don't see that as an advantage, rather a disadvantage because a jacketed bullet tender enough to expand usually does not exit. With a big bore sixgun, expansion is unnecessary but an exit wound is quite beneficial.


I would imagine that hard cast bullets would be very hard to seat in the cylinder of a cap 'n ball revolver with a normal loading lever.
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Indeed but that is not the debate. The debate is over your statement that "full power magnum bullets are jacketed for a reason". Which is hogwash. Elmer Keith wrote of the effectiveness of his hardcast semi-wadcutter nearly a generation ago yet lots of folks still believe you need a jacketed bullet to take big game or reach "magnum" velocities. Like your post suggested.
 
OK Craig, I'll take your word for it.

For pressure issues, keep in mind that all that is sealing the breech is a little copper cup being mashed by a hammer. Don't try to make this into a gun that it is not.

- Ivan.
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A percussion nipple simply is not sealed, even with black powder pressures gasses blow back through the nipple, that's why so much powder fouling gets into the hammer channel of a ROA.
Modern revolvers aren't sealed either, there is still that cylinder to barrel gap.
 
B.L.E. said:
A percussion nipple simply is not sealed, even with black powder pressures gasses blow back through the nipple, that's why so much powder fouling gets into the hammer channel of a ROA.
Modern revolvers aren't sealed either, there is still that cylinder to barrel gap.
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The cylinder to barrel gap is inevitable unless you have a Nagant Revolver that is a fact from the earliest revolving cylinder weapons with a separate barrel.

The modern cartridge apaun firing will seal it's self in the chamber due to heating up & expansion at firing which helps keep much of the pressures contained within the chamber & as long as the cylinder is made of the right material & of the right temper can withstand an enormous ammount of pressure along with the cartridge.
With the Percussion cone you are right the pressure does come out through there as well as throught the chamber opening as the projectile but the discussion is to weather or not the ROA is capable of .44 S&W Magnum power & that is quite simply no because to achieve that the weapon would need a slightly longer chamber to handle more powder & use a projectile of approximatly 200 + grains in weight as it is the ROA is capable of approximating the power of a .357 Magnum round.
 
Caution to the experimental. the gun is designed to shoot a 44 regular load is not ment to hold any more then what its designed to hold. Try a modern 44 mag round in a 44 regular. You will get the same result.
 
Try a modern 44 mag round in a 44 regular. You will get the same result.
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A .44 magnum round won't chamber in a .44 special. The .44 magnum shell was purposely made 1/10 inch longer than the .44 special shell on purpose just so no one could shoot it in an older .44 special.
But yea, if you want a .44 magnum, buy a .44 magnum, they still sell em.

The Ruger Old Army is actually a .45, it uses the same barrel that Ruger uses for .45 colt. They just call it a .44 because in the old days, the caliber of a barrel was the diameter before the rifling grooves were cut. For that matter, the .44 special and magnum is really a .429, long story behind that.
 
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