Rounds Jammin, Whats to be expected?

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Was reading the Kimber post.There was talk about ammo jammin, 1 or 2 ever box. What is expected from a handgun, what is normal.

I have a CZ-75 i purchased while in Germany in 1989 it has never jammed. I have fired several hundred rounds thru it of all types of ammo. I have a Slab-Side Ruger that has jammed with certin Pmc ammo, when it get dirty.
 
Automatics should NEVER jam! Period! Those that claim one or two jams per whatever number of rounds are fooling themselves. That is like saying, "I have to push my car every X number of miles". How long before that car is gone?
I have a Sig P220 and have gone through 1000 rounds of 200 gr Lead SWC, another 1,000 or so FMJ. The gun has never had a jam. Anything less than that is a failure.
One should never have to wonder if in the moment of truth or in the heat of competition, have a gun fail them. They are just too darn expensive.

Robert
 
ive gone thru 500 rounds with a sig 229 with no jams. not to mention this is the dirtiest gun in the east.

its a rental.....yep..never been cleaned, only lubed.

ive rented well knowing i was gonna buy a sig. all the others jammed. not the sig. Kinda makes ya a believer huh?

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TIM : )
 
Hi, guys,

Some of you know my opinion of "expected jams" and "break in periods".

Any manufacturer who uses either to avoid responsibility for a bummer product is not worth patronizing.

Jim
 
I feel that a "break in period" for a gun, is not unreasonable. After all, if you buy a new car, read the manual about "breaking in" the new engine. a few hundred rounds to smooth everything out is fair.
That being said, my Colt 1991a1 I got NIB and it has never misbehaved in any way, shape, or form (Except with colt mags...) No break in period.
After a break in period though, if my one of guns malfunctions, it is totally unacceptable.
 
Functional "break-in" of ANY firearm is a BS
advertised by some manufactures who are not willing or able to produce in accordance to
specifications.

However, "break-in" of a barrel to achieve
best accuracy is something different and may be considered normal. During this process barrel bore is "fire lapped" by the bullets. This would be a correct comparison to new car engine - piston rings/cylinders, crankshaft bearings and other surfaces do
pretty much the same thing, "self-lapping"
to each other, to achieve the best possible
profile of the surface for long life of
engine parts.

But you would not expect your new car engine
to jam during the first couple thousands of
miles, right? You expect it to run, to function... So, why do you think that jamming of the new gun, which is nothing else but NON functioning, is O.K.?
 
There are a lot of things which can cause a jam. Ammo could be bad (poorly sized, shape of nose, underpowered, overpowered), cleanliness of firearm (last cleaned when Grandma Moses was learning the alphabet), condition of firearm (worn or broken parts), bad magazine (lips bent, dirt, deformed, follower spring weak) operator error (limp wrist), ad infinitum.

The challenge for the engineer is to develop a gun which tolerates the above and yet function reliably and accurately despite all these problems.

A challenging cartridges is the 40 S&W. Dang good bullet and it's taken LE & America by storm. But what a nightmare. It has the narrow base of the 9mm but tapers out to 10mm diameter. Unlike the .45 ACP, it is supersonic and higher pressure, so the case must be supported. You can't widen or flare the chamber mouth on a 40 S&W like you can for the .45 ACP. The follower also has to compensate for the odd shape of the cartridge. A worse bullet to design a semi-automatic pistol for is the .22 Short. Stubby little sucker with a rim.

Yep, engineers worldwide adapted designs to all sort of calibers and I give a lot of credit to those guys. But they can't anticipate every new bullet design for a particular caliber and guarantee that their gun will work. Most of the time it does, but sometimes it doesn't. Nor can they control the secret super load being developed by a reloader out there.

That said, the user is responsible for finding find out what works reliably and accurately with his/her particular firearm...and stick to that combination whether engaged in competition or (hostile) conflict resolution.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Personally I think a gun should be reliable out of the box. If it isn't, the factory should make it reliable. However, some guns do have metal burrs that made it out of the production line which can be shaved off through use.
 
INMO a lot of the "break-in" has to do with
the shooter's operation of the weapon. The
breaking period has to be looked at as the shooter gaining confidence in the weapon and
his ability to use it.
 
IMHO, a lot of shooters need mo' "breakin' in" than a good Colt 45 Automatic, the "Gold Standard of automatic pistols" :)

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
RDF
here is my 2 cents. Every semi-auto will jam a time or two if you fire enough rounds. But remember some of the reasons why; The MAG. ( weakest point of the semi-auto), no lube, limp wristing, bad ammo, etc. Rarely is it the gun itself. If your gun jams once every 1 to 2 boxes, and it's not operator error, you've got a big problem.
So,( since you have a ruger) practice clearing malfuntions! alot.
ek


[This message has been edited by ek127 (edited December 01, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by ek127 (edited December 01, 1999).]
 
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