Round balls in .44 &.45 cartridges?

J

JeepHammer

Moderator
I usually don't go to the public gun ranges anymore, but this was such a nice weekend, and I got a 'Bonus' at work this week, I met some friends at the gun range to get one last nice weather shoot in...

Ran into an old guy shooting .44 & .45 wheel guns, using ROUND BALLS in the cases!
Simply pushed a round ball in the case and taper crimped it a little.
I've never seen that done before, I vaguely remember someone talking about it 40 or more years ago, but never actually seen it done before.

To my utter shock, the pistols were dead accurate!
Two Ruger Super Blackhawks .44 Mag & two nice Colt cowboy reproductions.
If I'd have been asked before hand I would have sworn they wouldn't shoot worth a darn with round balls charged to Mag velocities, and using modern powders in the reproductions, but the old feller was dead accurate (can't say that about the groups he let me shoot :( )

Anyone heard of this or done this before?
 
Yes, i have done it. Never tried high velocity rounds though. Bout 4 gr of bullseye if i remember. Like shooting a 22.
Mike Venturino did an article loading two balls stacked in a 45 colt case with 6 gr of unique.
 
I was gonna say some folks make duplex loads with round balls. 2 balls stacked in a 38/357/44/45 case. Ive seen some pretty good accuracy as well.
 
I tried it before with .45 ACP, using either a pinch of fast powder or a case full of black powder. It was fun to try. However, the velocity was low enough that those soft balls would flatten out against a block of firewood (oak) and bounce off. Some of them came straight back at me!
 
.454" Hornady balls were very accurate out to 50 yards in my 45 Colt carbine. I found best accuracy when the balls were seated deep in thr case. 3 grains of any fast flake powder
 
I REALLY like cowboy guns, and they come in modern calibers, so I might try this.
I had no idea people actually did this, like I said, I heard about it once about 40 years ago, but not since then...
Sounds like a cheap, easy way to produce paper punching ammo!

I was surprised about the accuracy, this guy could really hold a good group (better than me!) And I would have never thought a round ball would hold the riding.
 
This is an old gallery load technique. I believe was first done in quantity in the wild west shows. When Annie Oakley or the other trick shots broke glass balls tossed into the air, either a ball or shot powered by a small black powder charge was used. They didn't want regular bullets puncturing their tents and raining down on any nearby town. In that tradition, Clint Eastwood's character in Bronco Billy uses round ball loads in his revolvers, IIRC.
 
I'm not sure a movie reference is trustworthy...
I did know a lot of the trick shot guys used shot loads to break plates & glass balls or bottles/jars.
I won about $300 using shot loads to break clays with a .45 Colt one time...

Just didn't know that forcing cones intended for soft lead would shoot round balls as accurately as they did (didn't think it through until now, cap & ball pistols shot round balls just fine, and all early cowboy loads were round nose soft lead bullets, so makes sense).

Casting round balls in volume is MUCH easier to get out of the molds, no worries about voids, etc.
I have a crap load of round balls for my muzzle loaders, probably more than I'll ever use, so it's something I might try now!

Too may years of trying to keep up with high power & military firearms to rethink the old cowboy stuff, just tunnel vision in my case...
This old dog just learned a new trick!
 
If you try to shoot a crapload, just remember dung has to be dried to burn, and in this case mixed with an oxidizer. I don't want to be in the room while you apply the mortar and pestle to it. :D

I did a little reading on Oakley and Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show. The round balls were in early use (probably much more widely available back then, as a lot of muzzle loaders were still in use for hunting). But in 1883 they did a show in Brooklyn in which it was reported they'd broken a lot of glass in a greenhouse a block and a half away from the show location, so they went to all shot after that. Oakley and others got smooth bore guns made so the rifling wouldn't spin the shot out of pattern.

You're right that a movie is no historical reference, but I tossed it in because the writers had to get the idea from somewhere. It's not something a Hollywood writer seems likely be to have invented spontaneously. They aren't usually gun people.
 
the Black Spot said:
Yes, i have done it. Never tried high velocity rounds though. Bout 4 gr of bullseye if i remember. Like shooting a 22.
Mike Venturino did an article loading two balls stacked in a 45 colt case with 6 gr of unique.
Click to expand...
I do the same, but I think I use 7.5 grain of Unique and I only shoot it in a Ruger Redhawk. Excellent load, wish ammo companies would make this load in .44 and .45 for self defense purposes. Then people in California could finally get to carry something close to a .410 revolver, only with bigger balls and better accuracy.
 
Round Ball Loading data

Speer # 11 has loading data for Speer .454 dia, 141 GR round balls for:
45 Auto Rim - from a 6.5 in barrel using Remington cases and CCI -300, 350 primers;
231 - 3.5 grains -580 fps, HP38 - 3.5 grains - 631 fps, 700X - 3.0 - 587, Bullseye - 3.0 - 592, Red Dpt - 3.0 - 599.
That may be good for 45 Auto too, thought it might not cycle the action well. It needs more research.

and 45 Colt from 5.5 barrel using W-W cases and CCI 30, 350 primers;
SR4756 - 5.0 - 565, SR7625 - 4.5 - 556, Unique - 4.5 - 632, 231 - 4.0 - 544, 700X - 4.0 - 566, Bullseye - 3.2 - 553, Red Dot - 3.2 - 568.

Was that a 3 or an 8 and darn if I can see the front sight anymore.

I heard of using balls in 30-06 and other high power rounds for low cost plinking and squirrel loads in Amer Rifleman years ago.
Ballistics products sells #1-1/2, .31 dia, 40 grain buck shot, that might work for that at about $40 for 8 pounds or about 0.03 per shot. I haven't tried it myself. The article says to push the ball in with your thumb and single load the cartridge for each shot to prevent bullet set back with recoil. Something to keep in mind if you elect not to crimp the 45 Colt.
 
A long time ago I had a Ruger No. 1 in 375 H&H. I had a machinist friend of mine take a 3/8" rod and lathe the tip down to make a decapping tool, with a nice walnut ball on the butt end. Took a Winchester 120 primer, 6 gr of Red Dot and thumb pressed a .375 round ball into the case mouth. Made a nice gallery load for offhand practice. I think in 44 or 45 revolver loads, 2-3 grains of Red Dot would suffice.
 
Round ball loading in pistols/revolvers (and rifles) use to be quite common. The army use to put out reloading data for what they called "gallery loads".

Mainly for urban NG units who didnt have access to outdoor ranges.

Just a quick check of Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading", data listed for the 45 ACP uses a 145 gr round ball using Bulleye from 4-5.5 grs with velocities of 865-1040. These loads were recommended by Her.

Sharpe also shows that same bullet being used in the 45 LC.

A 119 gr 44 RB bullet is shown for te 44 Russian using 2.8 gr of Bullseye.

A Check of the old army marksmanship manuals often give loading data for Gallary loads.

Not so common any more since the M16 came on the scene. For that they use the M261 Conversion Kit and 22 RF ammo.
 
I found a ball mold that dropped a 432" ball, originally intended for my Wrist Rocket. After I discovered the diameter, I rolled some in alox, inserted into a sized, primed 44 Magnum case over 3.0 gr. of Bullseye slightly below center and taper crimped lightly. I got 2" groups with my Ruger SBH, about the same with my 629 and in my Contender, I got 1 1/2" groups at 15-18 yards. I think if I worked on the load I could get better groups, but it is just a "play" load. If I remember I might run some over my chrony just outta curiosity...
 
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