Round ball & 45 Colt case

T

TemboTusk

New member
Most of the Colt revolvers were original designed to fire a round ball. I shoot my 1851 & Dragoon Colts with a Kirst Conversion cylinder in 45Colt.

A 454 round ball weighs in at about 160gn and the 45 Colt bullet comes in at about 255gn. That is a huge difference in weight and recoil between the two projectiles.

I am finding issues with deformed wedges and thought that the weight of 255gn bullet takes a lot more power to fire compared to the round ball.

The question is: Can a round ball be fitted to a 45 Colt case to more approximate the original design loads?
 
I am finding issues with deformed wedges and thought that the weight of 255gn bullet takes a lot more power to fire compared to the round ball.

The question is: Can a round ball be fitted to a 45 Colt case to more approximate the original design loads?
Click to expand...

Yes it can. However, I found it more effort than it was worth for my CAS shooting. But just fine for casual shooting.

The hard part for me was to get the ball to crimp well enough to keep the bullet from moving in the other 4-5 cylinders. But I've made cartridges with ball for bullet and full loads of BP and reduced loads with wads over powder then ball. All fired just fine and I would do it again if the whim hit me just right.

I currently use Dick Dastardly's Big Lube mold which drops a nice 210gn bullet with a HUGE lube groove. I can shoot over a hundred rounds with no fouling or leading problem at all from both revolvers and my rifle.
 
If you do a search on the forum. You will find the answer is yes. You can use smokeless or black. Black will give you results similar if not the same as with the percussion cylinder.
 
Also. There are a few bullet designs out that are from 150gr and more. The light wieght will be very close to rb results
 
32HR you put out the answer before I could get the question out!!

Am I right in thinking the weight of the 255gn bullet causes more pounding of the pistol than then the 160gn ball. (I just looked up Lee molds and saw some bullets from 148gn to 180gn)

If a ball is problematic for loading in a case, would other lower weight bullets approximate the original design specs?
 
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I've loaded round balls with Goex, and Trail Boss with good results. I use a lube wad with the BP, and either a wad or liquid Alox for lube with Trail Boss. Tried some loads with W231 /HP-38 but weren't all that successful. The hit just a little lower than the C&B cylinder.


My personal thinking is a bullet around 160-180 gr would work well.

The 250gr hit a bit higher than I'd like, and with 35gr of BP are a bit of a thumper. I'd guess that load is a bit stiff for my 1860 Army.
 
Cap & ball revolvers were also designed to shoot conicals. Conical bullets for .44 caliber revolvers usually weigh around 200 grains. I think you should be fine with anything up to that.
 
If you are using a stiff load of powder and that 255gr. bullet. I would say you are stressing things beyond design of the revolver. Are you using black powder/sub or smokeless?
 
The Big Lube EPP-UG 150 does well in most firearms and usually hits real close to your round ball. Cas City forum has some talk of using it in different loadings
 
Great replies guys, that really helps. I've ordered a 160gn bullet mold from Lee.

The 255gn bullet is rough on the 1851s with a health powder charge and a bit anemic with a minimum Trail Boss load.
 
I loaded some 250gr with 5 and 5.5gr (max listed is 5.8) of Trail boss, and it seemed fairly mild. Hit high though. The 5gr was a real mouse fart load.

My normal load for a SAA is 7.1gr of HP-38 with a 250gr, but that seems like it would be too much for the open top Colt's.
 
There are gallery loads using balls in the loadin manuals Speer and Hornady has. They aren light loads but .....

Maybe approximating a ball load in a percussion 1860 Army using smokeless or black with a ball in 45 Colt is possible. Pushing the ball in the high 700's FPS maybe low 800's FPS.

Using black I'd guess a case of Fg powder with a ball wouldn't be too much.

Smokeless and even the "Black" may be better served using 45 Scholfield brass that would have less canaverous insides.

TiteGroup powder is position insensitive so it's consistant even laying on the bottom of a case.

The loads for balls in the loading manuals are light gallery loads and it's good to follow the book to the "T". Then there's the black with the Fg powder that won't hurt anything I'd guess especially with the 45 Scholfield cases.

I've loaded balls in the 45 Colts and 45 Scholfield and crimped the ball well at the circumference and they stayed put.

Anywhooooo......the light conicals work well enough and aren't overly hard on the ole Colt 1860 Army. Balls are cheaper and easier to make though.

I'd be wanting to know what the chamber throat diameter is with the conversion cylinder......and the groove diameter of the barrel to fit a ball/bullet to the gun and......to make sure it is even possible to do it right.

What size would a gun take if the chamber throats are .451 ? No bigger than .451 right? Same if the throats were .452 right?
If my barrel were .451 in the grooves I'd be wanting a chamber throat diameter of at least .452-3. Can't get .452-3 moulds or balls so it would have to the .451 size ball.

If the barrel were .452 then I'd go for a .454 throat and ball because it would shoot well and there are moulds and balls that size.

If I were shootin conicals I'd want those to be exactly what the groove diameter is so they weren't too tight and be too hard on the gun even if the conicals are light weight. Tight light conicals a coupla .001's ovee the groove diameter wouldbe hard on the gun especially with harder alloy's than pure lead. I'd want pure softer lead balls or conicals.

I've heard of people crimping balls on the smaller diameter with them set in the case with the wide part below the end of the case. That's using the black powder of course.
 
I purchased the following mold:

Lee Bullet Mold, .45 caliber, .452" diameter, 160 grain, round nose flat point Cowboy Action mold, double cavity, for .45 Colt, .45 S&W Schofield, .45 ACP, .45 Auto Rim


I plan on loading it with Trail Boss powder.
Trail Boss Loading data for the above mentioned bullet.

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 1/20/2014
data.hodgdon.com

45 Colt
Load Type: Pistol Powder: Trail Boss
BW: 160
This data is intended for original Colt revolvers and their replicas. Max pressure, 14,000 CUP.

Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 7.25"
Twist: 1:16" Trim Length: 1.280"
Primer: Winchester LP, Large Pistol

45 Colt
Cartridge Load Data

160 GR. CAST LRNFP Trail Boss .452" 1.500"

Starting Loads 7.0 grs --- 903 velocity (ft/s) --- 8,100 PSI
Maximum Loads 8.5 grs --- 1018 velocity --- 10,800 PSI
 
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