Ross Rifle model 1905

J

jmfc606

New member
Anybody have one of these? A local gun store has one it looks to be original.
It also has U.S. stamped on the stock under the pistol grip. I gave it a quick glance and am going back this weekend. Anything I should look for? Any info on these rifles would be appreciated. Price on it was $550. Thanks
 
Ross rifle

I too have been watching one in a pawn shop in South Texas in .303 British. It looks like a sporting model. My only hesitation is the bolt won't withdraw completely as it should. I've read that these bolts are easily mis-assembeled after they have been taken apart for cleaning. The asking price is $450. I've been tempted but don't really need a non-working curio.

Rosses are interesting historical pieces and I'd sort of like to have one.
 
"My only hesitation is the bolt won't withdraw completely as it should."

That could be a danger sign.

I THINK that both the Model 1905 and the Model 1910 had the same design flaw that allowed the bolt to be reassembled incorrectly.

On closing, the locking lugs would not engage, and on firing the bolt body would be propelled into the shooter's face, seriously injuring or killing him.

Tell-tale signs of the bolt being assembled incorrectly are that it's hard to push into battery and, if you watch the bolt head, you'll note that it doesn't rotate into locking position.

Many rifles were modified once the problem was recognized, but some are still out there that were not.

The rifle marked US is more than likely one of the ones that was sent to the United States on our entry into the war. We were short on rifles, so we took guns like the Ross and Westinghouse-made Moisin-Nagant rifles to be used for basic training to free up M1903s and M1917s for combat use.


This seems to be a pretty good look at the Ross rifle. I've not watched the video because I'm at work, but the comments seem to be complimentary.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/myth-and-reality-of-the-ross-mkiii/


The Ross is one of those really unique rifles that isn't well know, has a pretty big legend surrounding it (that's largely true), and has one of those love/hate relationships with the people who used it.

Even though the Ross was a failure as a general issue service weapon in large part due to its sensitivity to dirt (something other straight-pull rifles have shared), it was recognized for its exceptional accuracy and was highly sought after as a sniping weapon not only during World War I but into World War II as well.
 
All original Ross rifles in military configuration are extremely rare. Who cares if the thing shoots, go buy it and figure out what to do afterwards.

It is my recollection that the solid lug Ross's could not be assembled incorrectly, only those Ross's with the interrupted thread lugs have that problem.
 
"It is my recollection that the solid lug Ross's could not be assembled incorrectly, only those Ross's with the interrupted thread lugs have that problem."

I don't know for certain, but I have heard that both can be incorrectly assembled.
 
You are apparently looking at one of the 20,000 Ross rifles bought by the US Army for training in WW I. I presume all the 1903s and 1917s they could produce were going straight to deploying troops.

From what I have READ, the 1905 with square locking lugs is not subject to being reassembled wrong and launching the bolt. The 1910 with interrupted thread locking lugs is, but it is not as easy to screw up as the popular press would have you think.

Phil Sharpe had very little good to say about the Ross rifles.
Since the straight pull has little if any primary extraction and no leverage, it was very subject to stuck cases when shot hot and dirty in the trenches of WWI. Canadian troops stomping open the bolts were a well known sight.
The bandaid for this was a very oversize chamber, even compared to the generous SMLE chamber. The cure was to issue SMLEs to all Commonwealth troops.

Sharpe thought the .280 Ross in a clean gun was a fine accurate target rifle but he was scared of the interrupted thread action. Because, although it was actually pretty foolproof against assembling so as to not lock up, it was not dam' fool proof and there were casualties.
 
BIG Ross fan here!

jbondor ... while you didn't indicate whether this is a 1905 or later 1910, unless you can determine what the problem with the bolt actually is, I'd stay away from it. As posted, 1905s did not have the bolt issue that the 1910s did ... but I'd be somewhat concerned.

jmfc606 ... Things being as you described and if the bore's nice, I'd buy it! I've been collecting and shooting Ross rifles for decades and haven't lost an eye yet!:D
 
I am no expert by any means on the Ross - I did have a 1905 in my collection once that was in with a quantity of rifles I purchased from an estate. It had been sporterized.

I had read about the bolts being re-assembled incorrectly and the problems that could occur. Being a "cartridge gun", I just put in in the rack as I had no desire to shoot it. I decided to clean it an oil it up one day and when I pulled back on the straight pull bolt, I was surprised when it came completely out of the receiver. That made me do a little more research at which time I also ran across some accounts of shooters being killed when the bolt came straight back in to their heads upon discharge of a round.

Long story short - I "parted" it out as I never wanted it to get in to some one's hand who would want to shoot it without having it checked over. I know . . . probably shouldn't have "parted" it but I could just see some joker trying to shoot it "just because he could". It was sporterized so at the time, I didn't put much of a value to it.

Moral of the story is simple . . . if you buy a Ross, do your homework and know the dangers and make sure the bolts are re-assembled correctly.

The Ross is an interesting firearm and certainly has it's place in a collection of rifles of that era.
 
Thanks for all the replies and links. I'm going there tomorrow. If it's still there and everything looks good upon closer inspection I'll probably buy it. I've never seen one before and it will be a nice addition to my military collection. Again, thanks for all the good info!!

:)
 
The 1905 Ross bolt can't be reassembled wrong, or at least I was never able to do it. The 1910 bolt doesn't even have to be disassembled to get it wrong. One needs only to pull the extractor outward and turn the bolt head clockwise (as seen from the rear). The bolt head will snap back against the bolt body with the lugs in a horizontal position. The bolt will be difficult to re-insert that way, but it can be done, and evidently has been. Once re-inserted, the bolt can pick up a round and fire it, but the bolt head will not be locked and trouble will occur.

Otherwise, the Ross is pretty strong, though. A friend had some Italian 7.7 MG ammo (dimensionally the same as .303 British) that had destroyed his SMLE Mk III. I fired it in a 1910 Ross and a Pattern 1914 with no signs of any problem.

Jim
 
Somewhere on the www is a tutorial on Ross bolts.
It shows one right and it shows one wrong.

As Jim K says, it reportedly takes effort to rotate the bolt head wrong and it takes effort to get it back in the rifle.

And if you look at the bolt as you stroke it, you can see the head rotate... or not.

Elwood Epps, the noted Canadian gunsmith, would put a rivet through the bolt to keep the head from being rotated wrong.

The other liability in the 1910 Ross is that if you cycle the straight pull bolt vigorously and repeatedly - you know, like rapid fire in a shooting match, or a war - the bolt stop will hammer the rear lug out of shape and make closing the bolt difficult.
 
"Somewhere on the www is a tutorial on Ross bolts."

I linked one in my first post in this thread.


The rivet, or riveted sleeve, as the Canadian military's fix for the problem.
 
We have a 1905 Ross 303Br.
My daughter got her first deer with it at age 12.
It's very accurate but like many military rifles,
has an oversized chamber.
Only the later 1910 model could be incorrectly assembled.
They are not that rare up here, but few are in as issued condition.
 
Mike, I think the fact that the rifle in that video sustained so little damage was that the bolt blew open and the gas escaped into the air before very much pressure built up. Had there been more resistance, I would expect to see, as a minimum, a split stock, bent or bulged receiver, and a ruined magazine. Apparently, the only damage was one bolt lug, and the rifle appears usable if the bolt is put together properly.

Jim
 
Jim,

I've always heard the stories about the bolt blowing open, but I've never head of much, if any, rifle damage associated with that event.

I always assumed that if the bolt did leave the action it was due either to a worn or shattered bolt stop.

Interestingly, I have seen a few tidbits that indicate that when the Canadian military started modifying rifles to prevent this from happening (by installing the rivet), they also fitted a redesigned bolt stop that had a LOT more bearing surface.
 
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