rookie question

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oldknotty

New member
tomorrow i am going out to fire my two new Pietta BP revolvers for the first time , what i need to know is what is a good load to put in for the first firing ?? 20 grains , 25 grains ....????? I have an 1860 Army colt and an 1851 navy brass frame both are 44 cal also what size balls can i use in them ??
Thanks for any feedback
 
Im something of a newb myself, but have been getting good results so far.

I try to stay away from the .451. I only use them in paper cartridges and always run .454 when loading normally. Just gives me a little more assurance against chain fires (I always use an under ball wad as well). The idea is a good ring of lead being cut off all around the ball and a good tight fit in the cylinder. The tighter the fit, the more the power as well... Or at least it seems that way to me.

I dont really know much about loads for the brass framed stuff.. Are they both brass or only the 1851?
 
Dont know specifics about the 1860 (asked that question myself in another thread), but you can pack considerably more into a steel frame then a brass one. I think 20 should be about right for brass... Certainly not over 25. That would probably be the starting point in the steel one though, and work up from there and see what shoots best in it, what gives the best feel and accuracy.
 
" .454 when loading normally. Just gives me a little more assurance against chain fires (I always use an under ball wad as well). The idea is a good ring of lead being cut off all around the ball and a good tight fit in the cylinder. The tighter the fit, the more the power as well... Or at least it seems that way to me.


.454 is the standard size ball.

Chain fires come from fire going through the nipple opening from nipples not having proper size caps, not from the front of the cylinder.

Actually when seating a ball on top of wads, the ball pulls the wad from away from the cylinder wall and creates a gap where the wad does not fit any more to the wall. The gap is created from the wad forming around the back of the ball due to it's shape.

There is not correlation between a tight ball and more power. Increased energy come from more powder.
 
Chain fires come from fire going through the nipple opening from nipples not having proper size caps, not from the front of the cylinder.
Click to expand...

I have heard both stories.. and both "sides" seem to speak with equal conviction. Lucky enough for me, by using the proper size balls and the wad as I outlined, I have yet to encounter a single chain fire. Could there be other factors involved? Of course, but there is no reason NOT to try and be safe at both ends. If i ever DO have a chain fire, I'll have to look into it a little deeper.. But so far, so good.

Actually when seating a ball on top of wads, the ball pulls the wad from away from the cylinder wall and creates a gap where the wad does not fit any more to the wall. The gap is created from the wad forming around the back of the ball due to it's shape.
Click to expand...

That makes sense... I think.. But what does it MEAN exactly, in terms of performance and safety?

There is not correlation between a tight ball and more power. Increased energy come from more powder.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. Not sure I agree. The tighter projectiles certainly FEEL more powerful when fired... And it seems to me that the tighter the fit, the more power and time required to push it.. even a millisecond longer in the cylinder would equate to slightly longer burn time of the powder, and higher pressures, would it not?
 
.454 balls and not over 20 grains of powder in a brass frame. I'd stop at 18. fdf, I have one that will chain every time if either wads or over ball lube aren't used.
 
.454 balls and not over 20 grains of powder in a brass frame. I'd stop at 18. fdf, I have one that will chain every time if either wads or over ball lube aren't used.


Something is wrong with the pistol and nipples.

I shoot in line matches with 60 plus pistol shooters, never seen or heard of a chain fire. Shooting line matches since the 1980s.
 
I've been shooting this one since 1969. It does take #9 caps which aren't made anymore but you can leave all the caps off save the one being fired and as long as wads or lube is used you can't make it chain and it does shave a good ring.
 
I have heard both stories.. and both "sides" seem to speak with equal conviction. Lucky enough for me, by using the proper size balls and the wad as I outlined, I have yet to encounter a single chain fire. Could there be other factors involved? Of course, but there is no reason NOT to try and be safe at both ends. If i ever DO have a chain fire, I'll have to look into it a little deeper.. But so far, so good.


In talking with High Master shooters they say chain fires come through the nipples, I trust them over internet experts who do not know how to clean their guns and load them.


"Actually when seating a ball on top of wads, the ball pulls the wad from away from the cylinder wall and creates a gap where the wad does not fit any more to the wall. The gap is created from the wad forming around the back"

"That makes sense... I think.. But what does it MEAN exactly, in terms of performance and safety?"

Get you a piece of clear hard plastic, push in a wad and seat a ball on top of the ball and see what happens to the wad.

Safety, the wad does nothing, performance it does nothing. I guess a wad does in a minor sense, it moves the ball closer to the forcing cone and reduces the amount of jump for the ball.

I have been mentored by some of the best B/P shooters in the country and they have been able to teach what works and what is useless.

When the ball is seated a lead ring is cut, the extra effort in seating a .454 versus a .451 come from the ball entering the chamber, no increase pressure when seating the ball unless you force the loading lever down.
 
I've been shooting this one since 1969. It does take #9 caps which aren't made anymore but you can leave all the caps off save the one being fired and as long as wads or lube is used you can't make it chain and it does shave a good ring.


Learned something, never heard of #9 caps.

Off to get a beer and goggle #9 caps.
 
Learned something, never heard of #9 caps.

Off to get a beer and goggle #9 caps.
Click to expand...

Seems a strange thing to do... For someone who dislikes "internet experts" :D



*Wish there was a "chuckling" smiley.. so people would know when your just joking around with them..
 
I've heard 20 and bellow in brass frames, the 1860 should be able to handle 30-35 grains, as I understand it. I've only got a Walker though, so I can't speak from experience.
 
"Seems a strange thing to do... For someone who dislikes "internet experts""



Yep, I find a lot of factual information on the internet and more of mis- informed folks.

I read a lot, internet and books and shoot a lot.

I find a lot of wrong information posted on the internet. Folks read for a bit on the internet and then they regurgitate their readings and then they become the site expert.

Most of the top shooters I get to shoot with ( state and national) do not frequent the internet. You learn from them by shooting with them and listening to them.

For the most part they are technically challenged and they are comfortable in their world. Venture into their world and they will teach you.
 
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"I've heard 20 and bellow in brass frames, the 1860 should be able to handle 30-35 grains, as I understand it. I've only got a Walker though, so I can't speak from experience."

Seems most line shooters are using 20 or so, it is a favorite load of most.
 
"Seems a strange thing to do... For someone who dislikes "internet experts""



Yep, I find a lot of factual information on the internet and more of mis- informed folks.

I read a lot, internet and books and shoot a lot.

I find a lot of wrong information posted on the internet. Folks read for a bit on the internet and then they regurgitate their readings and then they become the site expert.

Most of the top shooters I get to shoot with ( state and national) do not frequent the internet. You learn from them by shooting with them and listening to them.

For the most part they are technically challenged and they are comfortable in their world. Venture into their world and they will teach you
 
Chain fires come from fire going through the nipple opening from nipples not having proper size caps, not from the front of the cylinder.
Click to expand...

Loose fitting balls will cause chain fires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne4VgCdAy7Y

Video proof right there.

Now it may well be that chain fires can happen from gasses vented through the cone and feeding back around a loose-fitting cap to work through an adjacent cone, but as the video shows, loose fitting balls will do it also.

Steve
 
I don't watch staged videos for a person to prove what they wish.

I see all the time videos being pushed on various sites of "watch me shoot my rifle or pistol", they are instructing folks with their bad habits. Their only qualification is some person with a camera and access to the internet.

If it was from the NMLRA or NRA, you have my attention.

If it had Certified Range Officer or Instructor I might watch.

Kind of like, hold my beer and watch this.
 
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