Road rage shooting in Phoenix

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geetarman

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SCOTTSDALE, AZ (KPHO) -
One person is dead after a road rage incident led to a shooting in north Scottsdale Thursday night, police said.

Police said two motorists were engaged in a physical altercation. The drivers pulled into a shopping center parking lot behind a CVS pharmacy at Pima and Pinnacle Peak roads.

Police said the 50-year-old victim climbed out of his car and approached the other driver, who is 59.

After the altercation ensued, the 59-year-old pulled out a gun and opened fire, hitting the victim in the stomach.
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The shooter is an attorney and is currently in jail charged with second degree murder.

Experienced in All Major Felony Offenses; Former President - Phoenix Trial Lawyers Association
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The quote above is from the web ad for this attorney.

I will add a link for the complete story. This isn't looking good at all.

http://www.kpho.com/story/16013903/road-rage-incident-leads-to-shooting


Geetarman:D
 
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Too few details to be able to form any conclusions, other than there was a shooting, and one man died. EVERYTHING else is just speculation at this point. The linked story says even the police are not sure if it will be a murder charge or self defense.

That being the case, what is the point of the post? Other that the shooting, its firearms related how? OP, what is it you want to discuss, keeping in mind the rules for General Discussion forum?

thread left open, for now....
 
The charge is second degree murder. The point of the story is that even an attorney can get so wrapped up in perceived danger that they resort to using a firearm to settle a "problem."


I thought this was for general discussion.

A firearm was used and the fallout can affect ALL of us.
 
geetarman, what you say is true. This one is fine as long as you stay with it and help keep it on topic. We usually don't tolerate simple crime reports. When the gun is incidental to the blotter report or the discussion here, it has to get on topic or it's gotta go. You're good.
 
Since the altercation began while driving and then escalated, he won't be able to claim self defense.

If someone is aggressing against you in a car, get on 911 right away and head for the nearest police station. It is a no win situation.
 
I was involved in something like this years ago, long before cell phones. The person was much younger and more physically fit than I was too.

What happened was, there was a Jeep trying to push me off the road, so I pulled over to let it by (2 lane country road). Well the guy pulls in behind me, comes over to my car, jerks open the door and reaches in to pull me out of my car...when he sees my, still holstered, Colt .38.

That was the end of that...he ran back to his Jeep and left in a hurry.

Now, I am not sure where this attorney's story differs from my experience (other than he actually shot the guy), but if that young man had actually physically grabbed me, I would have pulled that revolver and shot him,,,, and I do not think I would have been charged...different state of course.

The question revolves around whether you are in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or not. A very fit young man V a person who survived Polio, there is not a whole lot of question,,,and that is why I will not judge this situation without a whole lot more information.
 
It was reported on the news that the victim had a history of helping people.

He had reported on his cell phone the driver he was following was weaving and driving erratically.

He was on his cell phone when he approached the shooter and the the event was memorialized on recorded media.

His last words were reported to be: "Don't reach for the gun."

The attorney had said the victim tried to choke him and his story has just fallen apart.

Any way this shakes out, it is going to be bad news for law abiding gun owners.

It just makes me sick to see this kind of stuff going.

This is just not good at all.

Geetarman:(
 
Thanks, Geetarman, . . . this should be an object lesson for anyone who CCW's, . . . do everything you can to keep it under control.

Once that trigger is pulled, . . . everything said, done, thought, whispered, felt, etc., . . . will be under intense scrutiny, . . . and even if the intention is good, . . . if it is perceived wrong, . . . it can haunt the shooter forever.

I truly hope this is not as bad as it looks tonight.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I hear what you are saying.

The victim seems to have been a really good guy with a history of helping.

It seems he was on the phone with relatives explaining that he was following a car being driven erratically.

It appears he thought the shooter might have had a medical emergency and the victim was still on his phone when he approached the car of the shooter.

From the information available now, it appears he tapped on the window and the shooter reached for a revolver and shot the victim once.

The victim's last words are recorded and the shooter did call the police claiming the victim tried to strangle him.

The recorded phone conversation disputes that. The shooter is a long standing trial attorney and has had but one mild sanction since he began practicing.

After a review of the recorded phone conversation and a story from the lawyer that did not match up, the lawyer was arrested and booked into jail on a second degree murder charge.

Obviously, we do not know what the police know, but this is not good news for law abiding citizens who carry and a quick reminder that the most benign incident can turn into a huge crap sandwich that is going to be very expensive for the lawyer.

The lawyer did call the police and has already admitted to the shooting.

Now the piper must be paid. . .

Geetarman:(
 
attorney's story isn't garbage yet, so please keep us posted.

either way and in my opinion:

1)the man shot was an idiot

2)if you are involved in any kind of roadrage of any kind(aggressor, victim, whatever): if at all possible, do not stop, engage, etc. leave the scene no matter how mad you are, upset, confused, frightened, and so-on. If you can disengage reasonably then do so.

a moderator said here one time: "if you fight with a pig you're gonna get just as dirty."(paraphrase)
 
http://www.clickorlando.com/Road-ra...38/4728562/-/121x3xpz/-/index.html?hpt=ju_bn4

it happens like everyday. it just might be the attorney didn't want to fight while the other hothead tried to "take charge" of the situation w/fake authority. Only time will tell what happened, and even then it might not all come out.

When I was younger some idiot wanted to fight because I passed him; actually asked me to pull over at a gas station so we could fight. I was young and dumb(no I didn't take the offer from this meathead), but I had passed him after he passed me first. It was wrong of me to have purposely tried to get him upset. He had been pointing his finger at his head to motorists, so I took it upon myself to do the same to him. This is a fact; not something I am proud of.
 
The update this morning on the story is the victim was found on the passenger side of the car. Hard to fathom how the shooter claimed the victim was trying to strangle him.

I am sure there will be more today.

Geetarman:(
 
Police said the 50-year-old victim climbed out of his car and approached the other driver, who is 59.
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This screams "self defense".
However, it's hard to say if this is truly what happened or if it was just a statement taken from the lawyer.

The update this morning on the story is the victim was found on the passenger side of the car. Hard to fathom how the shooter claimed the victim was trying to strangle him.
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Maybe that's where the victim retreated after being shot. :confused:
Just a guess.
 
therealdeal and Dino., re-check geetarman's post #11.

The victim was on the phone with his family, saying the car had been driven erratically; he was still on the phone with them as he approached the car; it is believed that he thought the other driver was having a medical emergency, and he was trying to see if the guy needed help.

So, while the reporter called it a "road rage" incident, it would appear the only rage was on the part of the attorney.

Please explain how this looks like "self-defense."
 
"he thought the other driver was having a medical emergency, and he was trying to see if the guy needed help."

If I thought someone was having a medical emergency I wouldn't be on the phone with my family. I would either be paying complete attention to the emergency or I'd be on the phone with 911.

Let's see, some guy in a car follows me off the road, into the parking lot behind a store and then the guy gets out and approaches me. Do I really believe he is selling Girl Scout cookies or collecting for the Salvation Army? No, I am suspicious when I'm followed and then approached.

Time will tell on this story.

Meanwhile folks, be careful when you approach people having a medical emergency. Maybe their thinking is impaired by a stroke or heart attack. Or maybe they're just a dangerous drunk.

John
 
Based on the limited information presented, the only conclusion I can come to is that this is a tragedy for all involved persons. Most every thing else is speculation. JMHO.
 
Local paper reports the victim has two prior felony convictions. I have not seen verification in major media yet.

Also, the words that were reported to be from the victim as he approached the car of the shooter were reported by a relative. There is no way to verify exactly WHAT the vicitm said although the records should indicate whether he was or was not on the phone at the time of the shooting.

Also the police report the attorney was calm and cooperative and it was the attorney who called 911.

I will keep you posted as the story unfolds.

Geetarman:confused:
 
geetarman, we're going to close this now. We have wandered into a discussion of evidence and circumstance. Firearms have become a secondary discussion.

Closed.
 
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