RMR 224 bulk bullets
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stagpanther
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Thinking of trying them in my 6.5 twist 224 valk--which shoots 95 gr MK's very well. Since it's a bonded spire/soft point it was meant to be hunting bullet. Forgot to mention, they are factory seconds with coloration blemishes (I wonder who's, Federal's fusion?)--though the ones I have are mostly just greasy.
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stagpanther
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will do.
Unfortunately our weather is going to be very windy for the foreseeable future--but I should get a good idea anyway.stagpanther
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They look OK in BC--though my guess not as much as the MK or vld's in that size range. When I first ordered them I didn't see the pop-up window where they are described as factory seconds--I thought they were actually made by RMR. Still, a bonded high velocity .224 hunting bullet is something interesting. Federal announced several years ago after several "missteps" they were rolling out a 100 gr fusion--I haven't been able to track one of those mythical beasts down.
Winds get gusty enough my labradar starts waving around like a sail in the wind.
stagpanther
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Well, I just got back from doing my first test with my ARP long free-bore 224 valkyrie. This enables me to seat bullets longer--getting more capacity out of the case. It's a little touchy finding the right load--but this was...ahem...the all-time worst cartridge I've ever shot through it. Even Federal's factory 90 gr fusion cartridge--which I thought was terrible--I usually got 2.5 MOA or less--with my handloads I was getting groups of 10 MOA or more at 100 yds(!) I have a couple of other valk builds as well as a 22 nosler, I'll see if they are any better. This may be a case of "If it sounds too good to be true..."
I have a couple of other valk builds as well as a 22 nosler, I'll see if they are any better. This may be a case of "If it sounds too good to be true..."stagpanther
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I'm shooting these at about the same velocities as 95 MK's which my gun can shoot and stabilize well at high velocities (for a 224)--that's why I thought it would have no problem with these. Notice the pretty high base of ogive. The boattail looks pretty uniform, though it has a small crimp--which I'm guessing is probably the way they apply the boattail/bond to the base of the core. Federal made big foo foo over these as being able to stabilize in a conventional 1:7 twist valk barrel. I have a couple of those as well as a 22 nosler, so I'll give it a few more shots, so to speak.
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Hmmm. That mark on the boattail is not something I've ever seen before. It doesn't appear nearly deep enough to be a real crimp. Bullet accuracy is very dependent on base symmetry, and the photo on RMR's site, blown up and made brighter, appears to show inconsistency in that feature. However, this is a case where looks can be deceiving as the appearance may just be due to the light and the lens used. Are your copies all identical? It almost looks like an under-diameter ram was used on the bullet base to push it through a die. I don't know what actually happened, but I would be tempted to section one of them and see what's going on under there.
How long are these bullets?
How long are these bullets?
stagpanther
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They all have the same light "crimp." Bullet length is about 1.22, BO is about .405 from nose meplat (sorry, didn't put it in a comparator). I'm thinking maybe too forward center of gravity?? I'm not seeing any key-holing--just wide dispersion.
Didn't think of that; makes a lot of sense, especially since that "pressure line" appears in the boattail taper--in other words from the base of the boattail to the top of the taper there's a change in the angle of the taper.
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stagpanther
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@unclenick--I shot a couple of the same cartridges through my ARP "short freebore" (aka actual SAAMI specs) and the two shots were much better--my conclusion is that the bullet was possibly entering the lands non-concentrically in the longer free-bore chambered rifle.
The JBM site thinks you should get plenty of stability from the Valkyrie 6.5" twist, so something threw it out. I was thinking the marred boat-tail might be catching the muzzle blast, which significantly influences initial yaw, favoring one side. But if your second rifle didn't exhibit the same issue, it isn't likely to be the problem (unless the second gun has a muzzle brake).
Experimenting with seating depth would be a next step for the 224 V'.
Experimenting with seating depth would be a next step for the 224 V'.
stagpanther
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I know what you're talking about--I have several valk builds and when Berger rolled out the 90 gr vlds I bought several thousand of them. It took seemingly forever to find a good load to drive them. Yesterday I tried charges of 8208 xbr with these since that works great with grendels, I did get some moderate velocity loads that approached MOA at 100 which is pretty reasonable since these seconds are for hunting anyway. I don't think sub .5 MOA is in the cards with these--but who knows, maybe a different powder. I honestly don't think the 6.5 twist is to blame for failing to stabilize the 90 gr Bergers; I had some loads that key-holed and some that I eventually discovered shot just fine. My theory is that it's such a long thin high SD design it simply gets deformed too easily. Simply seating the bullet in the seater stem can change them under not much pressure if the bullet nose doesn't conform "just right." Also, there were at least two different "flavors" of chamber reamers floating around among barrel manufacturers after Federal's less than stellar roll-out of the valk; the net result being that the same cartridge/bullet could have pronounced performance differences depending upon which barrel you had. I invested thousands of dollars in learning this hard lesson.
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stagpanther
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I went out and did one last 5 shot group with the 90 fusion driven by 8028xbr. The result is not as bad as it looks--it's blowing 22 to 28 mph quartering tailwind in the 30's and at 100 yds this is very close to realistic conditions that I would be hunting in where I live (except that I was shooting off a bench). I'd say these are a reasonable buy at their price point.
PS--yeah, I would avoid a tailwind hunting.
PS--yeah, I would avoid a tailwind hunting.
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stagpanther
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Picked a random charge of 2000MR this morning and loaded up 10 cartridges without "equalizing" the cases or bullets; the two fliers were obviously me but I still think this is quite credible for a 224 bonded soft point hunting bullet. Many hunters I know buy a box of corelokts a week before deer season opens and call it good if they get 5 shots to group 3" @ 100.
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Glad it looks like you'll get good use from them. Other areas to experiment with might be more jump rather than less or might be a slower powder than normal that makes OK velocity with lower peak pressure, which will stress the bullet less. Conversely, they might need more speed to that changes due to muzzle blast take longer to happen, giving the bullet more chance to get clear.
9MMand223only
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http://www.natoreloading.com/
Valkyrie tab. about 200 loads there, 20+ powders tested, many bullets, seating depth.
With those 90 grain bullets, try these 2 loads, or close to it, and I think youll get quality results:
23.9 grains TAC
23.6 Grains Varget
OAL 2.270-2.295. If it doesn't shoot those 2 loads decent, I will be surprised.
Valkyrie tab. about 200 loads there, 20+ powders tested, many bullets, seating depth.
With those 90 grain bullets, try these 2 loads, or close to it, and I think youll get quality results:
23.9 grains TAC
23.6 Grains Varget
OAL 2.270-2.295. If it doesn't shoot those 2 loads decent, I will be surprised.