Rifle With A Cylinder?

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Dragger34

New member
Most of my firearms experience comes from semi-auto pistols so please excuse my ignorance.

On occasion I've seen rifles with a feed system using a cylinder similar to that from a revolver. What is this kind of rifle called? Pros and cons on this set-up? Are there any short, high caliber rifles like this? What manufacturers make them?

Thank you in advance.
 
Revolving rifle is a term I've heard in the past.

Revolving rifles in the US were made by Colt. While they weren't a new concept, Colt was the first to make them on a production level. Here's a funny article that blends satire with historic fact... http://1000words1000days.com/2012/01/day-29-colts-revolving-rifle-other-ways-to-die/

The flaw in the design, though, isn't funny. A chain fire could result in your being known as Stumpy, Righty, or Lucky for the rest of your life.

Colt offered to raise a company of sharpshooters during the war, on his own time and dime, who would be equipped with Colt revolving rifles. I guess he heard about Hiram Berdan doing the same thing and he wanted a piece of that action.

The war department demured, and Colt died soon afterwards (not from a revolving rifle incident).

Some attempts were made to reintroduce the design after self-contained cartridges started pushing cap and ball actions out of the way, but the concept couldn't compete with the Winchester and other lever actions, so it was dropped.

Recently Taurus came out with a revolving rifle/shotgun, the Something Very Very Silly model, I think.
 
The revolving cylindered long gun has been redone over the centuries. There have alway sbeen the same issues.

strength, reliability, loading.
 
the new ones are Taurus's ( Circuit Judge ) if I recall correctly... & are basically a Judge revolver with a longer barrel & a shoulder stock... I think they are all 45 Colt / .410, but they may have added a few more handgun calibers now ???

the barrel / cylinder gap can be an issue, because of how a rifle is shot... Taurus addressed this issue with a flash shield that covers the gap ( I always wondered if the shield could actually direct the gap spatter reward, because of the design ) while I've never shot one, & they don't really interest me, I have watched people shoot them, & didn't notice any issues with the cylinder gap...
 
Both regiments of Berdan Sharp Shooters were initially issued the Colt 1855 Root Revolving Rifle. Like any cap 'n ball revolver, there was the inherent danger of a chain fire and I've read a letter wherein the writer reported of some sharp shooters picking lead out of each other and in the worse case, someone losing their digits from a chain fire. They hated those guns and were happy to exchange them for Sharps rifles. The Colts were then reissued to other regiments which enjoyed the rapidity at which it could be fired.

Modernly, while a cartridge gun will not suffer a chain fire like the Root rifle, it will produce a flame. If you recall the Ruger .357 Maximum cartridge, it also produced a flame that would cut the frame. I suspect that unless a Moisin Nagant system was used where the cylinder went forward to engage the forcing cone so as to seal the breach, it would suffer a lot of flame cutting; thereby reducing its useful service life.
 
Dragger34 said:
On occasion I've seen rifles with a feed system using a cylinder similar to that from a revolver. What is this kind of rifle called?
Click to expand...


A "feed system" = a "magazine", either detachable or not.

The rifles with a rotary feed system / rotary magazine's have their place in the sporting world by making a more compact system than a straight-line or staggeded-feed magazine.

Some examples are the venerable Savage 99 levergun, the finely-fitted Mannlicher-Schoenauer bolt-action rifles & carbines, the popular Ruger 10/22 autoloaders - and the Ruger 77/22, 77/357, 77/44 series of boltguns.

The above posts apply if you're referring to long guns that have a rotary breech w/multiple chambers, aka "cylinder", instead of a rotary magazine.



.
 
"Both regiments of Berdan Sharp Shooters were initially issued the Colt 1855 Root Revolving Rifle."

Say what now?

It was always my understanding that the troops were initially armed with their own rifles and never drew a military issue.

Berdan requested that the units be armed with Sharps rifles, but the request was turned down by War Department officials who thought that any soldier who was able to fire his weapon more than once every 9 days was wasting ammunition.

Berdan then went right to the top (Abraham Lincoln) who ordered the Sharps rifles to be authorized.

I have never heard a single peep about Berdan's units being issued Colt Revolving Rifles as a standard issue, so do tell, Gary!
 
The Revolving Rifle is a good example of A Great Idea That Doesn't Work, for the reasons others have noted. I suspect somebody "Back Then" realized greasing over the chambers prevented a chain fire, unfortunately his name is lost to us. My experience firing my Colt 1860 Army with a shoulder stock is that the supporting hand has to be placed too far back which results in a rather awkward, uncomfortable and ineffective shooting position.
 
Rifle with a cylinder

Quotes from Gun Digest 31st Anniversary Edition, 1977;

"Two regiments of Sharpshooters were enlisted, one commanded by H. Berdan and the other by Colonel H. Post. They were issued the standard Enfield Infantry rifle. After a near mutiny by the sharpshooters, plus forceful directives by Lincoln himself finally had the desired effect and during the spring 1862 campaign some 2000 Sharps rifles were issued. Unfortunately one regiment had been called to duty during McClellans Peninsular Campaign, not yet having been issued the Sharps, this regiment had been armed with the Colt revolving rifle, which most of the men did not care for, considering them a mere toy".

This edition of Gun Digest has quite an in depth article on sharpshooters from both sides of the war along with feats both recorded and passed along verbally. A good read no matter. Editor J. T. Amber, article by Dan Flores.
 
The Colt-type rifle is called a revolving rifle (same as a revolver at that time was called a revolving pistol). A rifle like the Savage 99 has what is called a "rotary magazine"; the Savage, Mannlicher-Schoenauer, and Johnson use an internal non-detachable rotary magazine. The Ruger 10/22 and similar guns use a detachable rotary magazine. The unsuccessful Dardick system used an open side revolving cylinder to feed the cartridges to the firing position, but that cylinder was in turn fed from an internal straight magazine in the pistol grip.

Jim
 
The Berdan's Sharpshooters mutinied, yes, mutinied, refusing to take the field until their Colt's were replaced with... Sharps rifles (coincidently) they had been promised. This was hushed up. The awful Colt's, which like today jet hot particulates out int your wrist from between cylinder and frame, were relegated to the secondary "Western" theater of US Army operations and, yes, they didn't mind them so much.
 
If I could afford a Colt revolving rifle clone for a wall hanger, I'd buy one as a work of art but I sure as hell wouldn't shoot it.

I was fortunate enough to handle an original Colt some 35 years ago. It was in amazing condition for it's age and I was too poor to think about buying it (kinda like now.)

Tony
 
The flash from the cylinder barrel gap isn't too much of a problem from a handgun fired at arm's length. It's a bit more of an issue when fired a couple of inches from your nose.

The revolving rifle was tried in the 19th century and dropped for good reason. Occasionally terminal nostalgia triumphs over good sense and it reappears. There is no logical reason for one given the availability of far better repeating rifle designs.
 
Well that's some pretty darned interesting information about Berdan's Sharpshooters and the Colt Revolving Rifle.

Thanks for that information!

" I suspect somebody "Back Then" realized greasing over the chambers prevented a chain fire"

That was well known by the time of the Civil War.

But... greasing the chamber mounths isn't 100%, as chain fires can also be caused by cap flash and powder gas leaking from the nipple, especially if the nipples are damaged or if the caps don't fit well.

A friend and I had that happen years ago when we were shooting his BP revolver. We were greasing the cylinder, but the caps didn't fit worth a darn. They were too big, so we had to pinch them to get them to stick on the nipples, which left a large gap. About every third cylinder we'd have a second chamber go.

A few months later we were shooting it again, and he had located properly fitting caps. We didn't have a single instance of a second chamber firing.
 
I can give you an idea of the problems it might have. When younger, I got the idea to take a .44 revolver deer hunting. I sat against a tree to practice in a hunting position and put my right hand on my left arm to fire. Around the 3rd shot I was putting out the flames on the left sleeve of my jacket. I can't imagine putting a longer barrel and a forearm on would make the experience any better.
 
What about with a really long LOP. Off hand fired from the front with a grip handle to the rear? The ?Cowpup? rifle. Chamber it in something hot so it wouldn't need much barrel. I could solve this non-existent problem if someone would just give me a million dollars to make a few prototypes...

Re-writing the NFA laws would also be convenient.
 
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Oh,Yeah - I forgot about the rare (700 made IIRC) S&W .320 Revolving Rifle.

SmithandWessonModel320RevolvingRifle_001.jpg
 
The S&W version fired metallic cartridges, so it didn't have nearly the drawback potential of the Colt.

I believe you could also get Colt 1873 Peacemakers fitted with a buttstock by the factory, and I've heard that that was also an option from Merwin Hurlburt, but I've ever seen one.
 
While doing a bit of research in my Jean Huon book on military rifle and machine gun cartridges yesterday, I came across a cartridge called the 8mm Pieper.

It is a gas seal cartridge like the 7.62 Russian Nagant revolver round.

Never stopped to read it before, but yesterday I did, and to my surprise, it was chambered in a turn of the 20th century Mexican gun called the Pieper Revolving Carbine.

I did a little websearching and found this page, where one was sold

http://www.icollector.com/Mexican-Army-Cont-Pieper-1893-Revolving-Carbine_i11003586

It was a 9-shot gas seal carbine. That's one way of resolving the issue of having your supporting hand and arm chewed up with ejecta from the cylinder gap.
 
Mike, you get a gold star for that find and sharing it! Nice work and very cool gun IMO. I am ashamed to admit I didn't know it either...
:o
 
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