Rifle Recoil

M

Mike H

New member
Guys,

Let me first state that I'm an avowed pistol shooter, rifles don't conceal well and tend to overpenetrate at 5 yards, scope focussing at this range is also a little difficult particularly at night. But, my uncle has offered to take me up into the high country and has advised me that I will need a little more than a 9mm. So here's the recoil bit, I'd like to go with a heavy caliber that will take care of ANYTHING, we have bears here you see, not great big ones but bears nonetheless. My uncle who is a seasoned veteran of deer hunts uses a 7mm Rem Magnum, when I announced that I had picked out a nice .338 Winchester Magnum at the local gun store and that it seemed to have the power I was looking for, I was roundly told that the recoil would, quote "mess you up real bad son". OK, so I'm a novice with long guns but I'm no spring chicken at 35 and 200lbs, and .223 is a kids caliber, while .270 won't do much to a bear or will it. My uncle says go with the .308 but I want a lot more insurance, so will my heavy .338 Mag "mess me up" or is it manageable , advice very much appreciated.

Regards,

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A Person Is Smart
But People Are Stupid

Mike H
 
Recoil depends on the weight of a gun, stock design, caliber , cheek weld, and the person. It can affect one person and not another. I had two 12 gauge shotguns, one a mossberg and the other a rem. Using the same loads in both guns, I felt more recoil using the mossberg than the rem. I own a .308 that weighs about twelve pounds loaded and scoped. I'm a small guy, 5'5" and a 150lbs. The recoil does not bother me at all, even from the bench. I'm pretty sure it could kill a bear with in 200 yards with proper placement and a good round. According to the ballistics, hornady's light magnum will give you 30-06 performance out of the .308 with the benefit of having a short action. Good luck in what ever you choose.

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L.D.
 
Mike,

Recoil is kind of relitive... for each individual. I use to have a .375H&H that I used up in AK. Recoil was stout but not that bad... nothing that I couldn't handle. Was it something that I wanted to take to the range and shoot all day with.. no. But 20 - 30 rounds sight in/grouping wasn't a problem. I also shoot a .45-110 with isn't that bad but then again the rifles weights something like 13 lbs. My wife also shoots this gun... her biggest problem is holding up the bbl. ;)

Don't think a .338 will mess up up... that is unless you hold the stock .5" - 1" away from your shoulder when you pull the trigger... then you may have a problem. Get a good tight firing stance and lean into it a bit and you should be fine.
 
Here is my two bits, I don't know where you are hunting but if there are mostly only black bears around a 270 or a 30-06 should be very adequate. Grizzly are something else but there aren't that many in the lower 48. Even so the only guy I know personally who has ever shot one used a 30-06, and he dropped it with one shot. Recoil is different for everbody. However I have known VERY few beginers who could shoot big guns very well and some who wont shoot at all after shooting a big gun. For me personally it has never bothered me while hunting. Probably because of the fact that I am usually focused on the animal, and the fact that I usually only shoot once or twice at a time. The problem I ran into was when I was sighting a rifle in. I have a ultra light 30-06 and while I love it for hunting, after a few rounds at the range I have to stop because I start fliching. I isn't like getting punched by Mike Tyson but it is uncomfortable. Bad habbits developed at the range can lead to misses in the field. My advice would be to try and find a few people with rifles you could go shooting with and decide for yourself. If not, the the 7mm Rem. Mag your uncle uses is a pretty good choice. If you are still stuck on a .338 Win you can get muzzle brakes that you can switch on or off or that are removable. I don't know if removing a muzzle break like that after sighting in effects accuracy though. Some one else on here could probably tell you. Best of luck with whatever you decide!
 
Mike - One alternative that may be worthy of consideration is the .45-70

If you haven't done so already, you may want to check out the bear gun thread in this forum.

That being said, if you weigh 200 pounds, I seriously doubt that the felt recoil of a .338 will "mess you up." The only way for you to know for sure is to take the rifle out and fire it using the loads you plan to take into the field.

As has been mentioned, make sure you get a good TIGHT stock weld. If you can fire 20 rounds or so without flinching to get the sights zeroed, you're doing fine.

Case in point - My Beretta 92F never causes me to flinch after normal use of 100 to 150 rounds at the range. After that, I like to move to the 100 yard rifle range, uncase my Colt Trooper .357 and do some distance shooting. This is fun for 30 rounds and no more. :)

Cliff
 
Where are you going, what's the terrain like, what will you be hunting, how long will you be there and will you keep going back??

Check out the "bear" and "44 mag" threads going on right now. Their is all kinds of good info in them!!

If your going someplace with lots of brush and the chance for a snap shot or shooting at ranges less than 150 yards I'd look into getting a Marlin 45-70 and some of Garretts 45-70 ammo. Someday I'm going to get a good lever action 45-70

If you are going where it's wide open, long range with not to much brush the 338 is a good gun, but it does "kick" some.

One day last fall I got to shoot a 300 win mag and 338 side by side within min of each other. To me the 300 win mag had a much harder kick, sort of like a mule kicking your sholder while the 338 was more of a hard "push" than kick. Both rifles were the same model but the 300 had a "plastic" stock on it and the 338 had a wood stock.
 
I think that the stock is the most important thing. For me personally the most painful guns that I have shot have been an older winchester 30-30 (sharp edged short little painful stock) and believe it or not an SKS (I'm really big and tend to hunch up on the gun, put the receiver directly into my nose once, crunch). Shorter stocks seem to inflict more pain. It seems that if the stock fits you well so there is a comfortable cheek weld then the recoil is much more managable. I shoot alot of .308, and it doesn't bug me at all. Also have shot a lot of 45-70, and its more of a shove than a kick.

Also a lot of people find straighter rifle stocks to be more comfy. The recoil comes straight back. I find that weatherby style (sorry can't remember exactly what it's called) stocks kick more, they tend to push down instead of back. But thats just what works for me.
 
Personally, I think you are about to make a classic mistake no matter what caliber, stock, weight, etc. of big rifle you choose: going to a big old rifle before you have really learned to shoot any type of rifle at all.
If you read old guys that were decent shots, liked big rifles and killed many a bear, such as Elmer Kieth or Jack O'Conner, you will see that they recommend shooting lots of 22's to develope your skills and then shooting the big rifle (which is shot only occasionally) just like you would your old 22.
I don't think you can develope good rifle shooting skills starting out with some big hard kicking, flinch inducing, ear shattering and expensive big rifle. I predict bad habits and maybe even a psychological aversion to big rifles as the most likely result.
If you do shoot well, the recoil of the few shots it takes to kill a bear won't bother you at all. In fact, it will be fun, at least for a few rounds.
So get a 22 and put thousands of rounds through it and then buy any big old rifle that suits your fancy. You are more likely to wind up with a closet full of big rifles this way. And finally, you are surely more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a bear.
 
Recoil is assumed.

I have a 338 and love it. I am 6' and weigh 180. I have shot heavy guns since I was 15.

The trick to recoil, real or otherwise is in the fit of the gun and how you shoot it.

I posted the method a while back. If you are interested reply to me by email and I will give you a step by step method that will let a kid shoot up to 600 class guns.

With the bullet availability for the 338 that we have today its a good choice.

Huntschool
 
I can never in this old long life ever remember feeling the recoil of a rifle in the field. I have dreaded sighting some of them in because they kicked the snot out of you but in the field you never feel them. How do you think they shot the 4 bores
 
Gunny put it right when he said that recoil is relative.

Consider magnaporting as a viable means of reducing the felt recoil. I've shot a .458 Win Mag which was magnaported and had less felt recoil than a non-ported .416 Rigby. It makes all the difference and there's no shame to it. Besides, detached retinas are no fun.
 
Guys,

Thanks for the replies and advice. In answer to the terrain question, we live and hunt in Pa which means that long range plains shots are unlikely as there is plenty of cover, but I am a novice so there may be such shots available but I doubt it. I guess that is another consideration for caliber because of bullet carry when firing at targets in front of cover, I don't want my .338 to carry on through the trees for 4 miles when I miss the deer or overpenetrate and kill someone in a parking lot. The .308 seems to make more sense.

Huntschool, any advice would be much appreciated, my e-mail address is on public view so I'll say yes please to your offer.

Finally, just a thought, if .338/.375/.416 etc are so loud why don't more people use suppressors on their guns I would imagine putting on ear protection in the field is bothersome and detrimental to your ability to stalk.

Anyways, thanks again fellas,

Regards,

------------------
A Person Is Smart
But People Are Stupid

Mike H
 
Mike:

I wold not put one of those things on any gun I own......They are hell on you left and right buddies at the range.

I have started wearing a pair of "EAR" electronic plugs when in the field with heavy guns. Not comfortable with them yet but at 53 and 50% loss of lowr I guess I better get to like them...they are just like wearing hearing aids.

Check yor email on recoil control

Huntschool

"Single shot shooters only shoot once"
 
Mike. The more common name for a supressor is "silencer". Something out all knowing government feels we should not have, even though they are not silent when using a high powered rifle. I think Huntschool thought you meant a muzzle brake, which is even louder.
First off, I shoot rifles such as the .338 Win. Mag., .375 H&H Mag, .300 Win. Mag. in a light rifle, and a .375x338 Mag. Wildcat. Yes, these rifles have some rather stout recoil, but none are so bad they can't be learned.
However, considering the area you say you will be hunting in, if it were me, I'd pick a rifle in .308 Win. and never look back.
Work up a good handload with a 165 gr. bullet and out past 250 yards, no deer, or Black Bear will ever realize that you shot him with a pipsqueak. Actually, the .308 is close enough to the 30-06 that the ndifference in power is negligable. An elk is one tough critter, and I usually carry a .308 for elk. I reload, and my favorite bullet is the 165 gr. Speer flat base spitzer. The round is accurate, and recoil in a 7 pound rifle very tolerable. Now if you plan on a Canadian or Alaskan trip, where "Brer Griz" is a possibility, the yes, I would say take the .338. But for what you stated as your hunt plans? The .308 is more than adequate. BTW. The worlds record Grizzly Bear was tied by a man with a 30-30 carbine. Boone & Crocket would not accept the tie because the guy shot it right between the eyes. I read about this in an old Outdoor Life magazine years ago. I may even still have it around someplace. I'll have to look see one of these days.
Anyway, JMHO.
Paul B.
 
Mike H~

I grew up in Western PA and still hunt in a state just south of you ( y'all). When I go deer hunting I usually carry a .308 which is plenty for the whitetail in your neighborhood. I have shot 250# bucks and very large boar with the .308 and and have put them down in their tracks. I have always carried a S&W 6" 44 magnum into the field as a Black Bear gun--only because several handgun hunting friends have taken black bear with thie .44 Just another option I think. good luck!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul B.:
Mike. The more common name for a supressor is "silencer[/quote]

Yes, more common but Incorrect! There is no such thing as a Silencer. You will always have some sound.

And the Govt doesn't think we should not have them... they only make it a PITA to get.

There are benefits and drawbacks to suppressors. If Mike's State allows them and he want to reduce the rifle's sound signature w/o having to use plugs/muffs (and he has the $$ to spare) I'd say go for it.

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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
I gave my hunting buddy in England a 17/222 and the first thing he did was put a suppressor on it. It ad a 19 inch barrel and it was loud. The complete job cost less than our stamp.Under 200 and it did make a difference. He uses it with night vision to hunt fox at night . Not as sport but as control.
 
Knew a man that was afraid to shoot his new British (303?) because of the recoil.
Being ever safety minded he stood with his shoulder against a tree and pulled the trigger. I still wonder why.
Ever been hit at close range with a fast ball? He didn’t shoot anything for quite a while after that.
 
Gale,

I've got a AWC Optima for my AR. I've played with some NV scopes but can't afford the type I want (Gen III). I'd be using it for control also.

With my .22 LR convirsion and subsonic .22LR my AR is, IMO, the Cats PJs! Now if I could just find a sub-sonic .223 that will also cycle.... ;)
 
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