rifle primers in a 357 mag load
- Thread starter xandi
- Start date
#1: Primers are designated/listed [rifle; pistol; standard; mag], for a reason and should be used for their intended purpose.
Blue Dot does well with standard pistol powder. It acts somewhat erratically (pressure spikes), with some cartridges as it is already with standard pistol primers. If you choose to use small rifle primers, you'd be making a mistake.
Take care.
WILL
Blue Dot does well with standard pistol powder. It acts somewhat erratically (pressure spikes), with some cartridges as it is already with standard pistol primers. If you choose to use small rifle primers, you'd be making a mistake.
Take care.
WILL
steveNChunter
New member
I wouldn't be afraid to use small rifle primers in a load that normally calls for a small pistol magnum, but I would back off a few tenths on the charge at first just to err on the side of caution.
I have used Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primers in .357 loads with 2400 powder. And it works great. But the 6 1/2 is designed for the pressures of the 22 hornet and is not recommended for higher pressure cartridges like .223
As has been said, other SR primers will have a harder cup than SPP's and the 6 1/2 and may/may not burn a little hotter so YMMV.
Just be sure to start low with the charge and work up slowly.
I have used Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primers in .357 loads with 2400 powder. And it works great. But the 6 1/2 is designed for the pressures of the 22 hornet and is not recommended for higher pressure cartridges like .223
As has been said, other SR primers will have a harder cup than SPP's and the 6 1/2 and may/may not burn a little hotter so YMMV.
Just be sure to start low with the charge and work up slowly.
mineralman55
New member
SR Primers In Small Pistol Cases
Don't.
I accidentally put CCI SR in .357 cases several years ago. The pistol wouldn't fire in double action, and took several strikes in single action mode to fire. No damage to the pistol or cases, but these were light target loads. Stick with SP primers in your pistols.
Don't.
I accidentally put CCI SR in .357 cases several years ago. The pistol wouldn't fire in double action, and took several strikes in single action mode to fire. No damage to the pistol or cases, but these were light target loads. Stick with SP primers in your pistols.
Reloader270
New member
I use Federal SR primers in my .357Mag for my Marlin rifle. The reason being that SP primers is not hot enough to ignite all the powder and then I get a lot of un-burned flakes in the barrel after firing. I am using a powder equal to IMR4227. The other brands have difficulty to go off. Nevertheless just remember that it would cause higher pressure and you have to down load on the powder to compensate for the hotter flash.
Way back when, pre-web, I tried as many combinations of primer substitutions as I could, basically the only primer swap I didn't have good luck with was Large Pistol primers in a Large rifle case. I got an occasional pierced primer with hotter loads, and since the pistol primer is shorter than the rifle I got a couple misfires (only tried 30-30). None of my revolvers failed when fed rifle primed ammo (.38/.357, .44 Special/Magnum), and only one or two instances of pierced primers in pistol primers loaded in rifle brass (.223 had the most).
I would not have a problem loading small rifle primers in a .357, 'cause I did it a lot in my 3, 38 Specials, way back when...
I would not have a problem loading small rifle primers in a .357, 'cause I did it a lot in my 3, 38 Specials, way back when...
SR primers in .357 Mag usually works just fine. Might not be a good idea with Blue Dot, cuz it gets squirrelly at the top end. (I've blown the heads off of cases using Blue Dot) You also *might* have trouble with light-strike misfires; that depends on the gun.
Try it with W296 or H-110.
Try it with W296 or H-110.
Wow, that's quite a vague, confusing post. Either it's written by someone with a LOT of experience OR someone that's guessing. The first line is right out of every/any reloading how-to book. Good advise for a beginner reloader.
However an experienced reloader knows that a small pistol AND small rifle primers are the same size in diameter and height. The cup material in a small rifle primer may be a bit thicker than a small pistol. So that may cause failure to fire by a light strike of the firing pin. Also the brisance, (amount of primer compound), in the primer may be more than in a small pistol primer.
What that means is; you will have to work up a new load to use the SR primers in the .357 loads. Don't simply replace SP primers with SR primers in an established max load. The blu-dot powder should work just fine with SR primers, may even be a better load with a stronger primer flash.
I load 357 sig loads. That's one time I use small rifle primers on purpose. i WANT and expect a better ignition of the typical slow powders used in 357 shells. My glock M-22 has no problem setting them off, no FTF with that ammo. ((My glock M-22 is of course a standard 40 S&W, but has an after market replacement barrel in 357 sig)).
SNUFF: I don't see what was so vague about the post. Xandi asked about using SR primers with Blue Dot powder. Blue Dot does just well with standard primers and all the manuals I've consulted say to use standard primers...Not mag pistol primers, let alone SR primers. Regardless whether they ignite with the thicker cup in pistols or not....It's dangerous.
Blue Dot is an erratic-burning powder with lighter-weight bullets and some manuals advise not to use Blue Dot with the lighter weights, especially in the .357 Mag. If you wish to do so, it's your prerogative, but to advise anyone else to do so may leave you open to liability should the other person even be errant in the loading. He needs only to state that YOU said it was safe to do so.
And FWIW....I've been at the bench for forty years and learned from experience some of the consequences from not heeding the advice RE: Blue Dot.....Especially in the .357 Mag. Go ahead with your loading, and I hope all goes well with you.
WILL
BTW; Just noticed where you're from..... Met a girl from there in Key West back in '70. She was on vacation with the family during New Year's '69-'70. Handled a car better than some pro racers I knew. Her name was Katherine Ann Marie Danielle Van B_ _ _ _ m. [Don't think it'd be polite to put her last name in print without her say-so].
Just sayin'.
Blue Dot is an erratic-burning powder with lighter-weight bullets and some manuals advise not to use Blue Dot with the lighter weights, especially in the .357 Mag. If you wish to do so, it's your prerogative, but to advise anyone else to do so may leave you open to liability should the other person even be errant in the loading. He needs only to state that YOU said it was safe to do so.
And FWIW....I've been at the bench for forty years and learned from experience some of the consequences from not heeding the advice RE: Blue Dot.....Especially in the .357 Mag. Go ahead with your loading, and I hope all goes well with you.
WILL
BTW; Just noticed where you're from..... Met a girl from there in Key West back in '70. She was on vacation with the family during New Year's '69-'70. Handled a car better than some pro racers I knew. Her name was Katherine Ann Marie Danielle Van B_ _ _ _ m. [Don't think it'd be polite to put her last name in print without her say-so].
Just sayin'.
Last edited:
Kind of two different variables here. The main question is small rifle primers in .357 loads, the other question is Blue Dot.
Primers: we have info from ATK that CCI-Small Rifle and CCI-Small Pistol Magnum are the -SAME- primer. FWIW, I am not an expert and not a professional but I load an average of 20k annually and I use CCI-SR (CCI-400) exclusively in my .357 Magnum loads. I wanna say I have a dozen different .357 Magnum handguns... my Coonan probably sees the most ammo.
To the subject of Blue Dot:
Endless evidence that Blue Dot sucks. Oddball and out-of-the-ordinary official PUBLISHED warnings against Blue Dot in specific different chambering, loads and some bullet weights. Blue Dot carries with it warnings from the source (Alliant!) that it gets stupid in some places and with no reasons given.
When the most expensive powder on the market is $30 per pound and .357 Mag eats 8.0-18.0 grains per round depending on which powder...
...it is my experienced and informed OPINION that continuing to use Blue Dot in handgun loads is a lousy idea. YMMV. It is low reward for the risk when powder is the least expensive part of the loaded round.
Primers: we have info from ATK that CCI-Small Rifle and CCI-Small Pistol Magnum are the -SAME- primer. FWIW, I am not an expert and not a professional but I load an average of 20k annually and I use CCI-SR (CCI-400) exclusively in my .357 Magnum loads. I wanna say I have a dozen different .357 Magnum handguns... my Coonan probably sees the most ammo.
To the subject of Blue Dot:
Endless evidence that Blue Dot sucks. Oddball and out-of-the-ordinary official PUBLISHED warnings against Blue Dot in specific different chambering, loads and some bullet weights. Blue Dot carries with it warnings from the source (Alliant!) that it gets stupid in some places and with no reasons given.
When the most expensive powder on the market is $30 per pound and .357 Mag eats 8.0-18.0 grains per round depending on which powder...
...it is my experienced and informed OPINION that continuing to use Blue Dot in handgun loads is a lousy idea. YMMV. It is low reward for the risk when powder is the least expensive part of the loaded round.
I whole-heartedly agree with you except I'm still out on the SR and SP being the same. I've never used the SR in any pistol cartridge using the SP primer so I won't contest that; However, it took only one cylinder-full of stuck cases with BD and 125gr JHPs to have me not use any BD in anything other than 158gr XTPs or 160-180gr Hard Cast loads for my hunting loads, simply because the accuracy and velocity were optimal in both the DW-14 and the GP100.
[That] having been said, I still think it is unwise to tell someone else to delve into using certain mixed components simply because it is supposedly safe in their guns....But, .....To each their own.
WILL
[That] having been said, I still think it is unwise to tell someone else to delve into using certain mixed components simply because it is supposedly safe in their guns....But, .....To each their own.
WILL
I certainly respect your position -- but we both come from a position of hands-on experience and further, the OP did not address his question to Ken Oehler or the lead ballistician at Alliant Techsystems, he asked an open forum what we think.
CCI small rifle and CCI small pistol magnum being the same primer comes from ATK customer help line. I offer zero proof nor written citations, but I will continue (in the THOUSANDS) of rounds of .357 Magnum using CCI-400 small rifle primers.
More official, researched and backed professional responses could possibly be solicited... somewhere other than a public forum.
. And I say that sincerely and respectfully.
CCI small rifle and CCI small pistol magnum being the same primer comes from ATK customer help line. I offer zero proof nor written citations, but I will continue (in the THOUSANDS) of rounds of .357 Magnum using CCI-400 small rifle primers.
More official, researched and backed professional responses could possibly be solicited... somewhere other than a public forum.
. And I say that sincerely and respectfully.Sorry that does NOT compute. It makes no sense to me. If it makes sense to you or someone else, then it's me that's the problem.
I clearly said that to use the small rifle primers he/anybody should work up a new load using data from any loading book for a load that would normally use small PISTOL primers.
Yes, I have heard about the warnings about blu-dot powder in handgun loading. There are many powders that have spikes in their loadings, get near max, they go way over with little added charge weight.
I've used blu-dot in many different handgun cases, both semi-auto and revolvers/single shot pistols. Always with complete success.
There's a well known warning about blu-dot being hard to ignite in magnum shotshell loads. It always said to use the hottest primer available, which then was the Alcan maxfire 209 primer. Now the Federal 209 is specified. A tight fitting wad and the firmest crimp you could muster was also called for.
ammo.crafter
New member
mag primers...CCI
I use CCI small mag primers for my 357 Maximun, fired from a Contender.
As others have expressed, CCI primers tend to be somewhat more stout then others and mau not ignite with a revolver hammer/firing pin strike.
Seat several of your primers and see if they go off in your gun. If they do, go for it, but ditch the Blue Dot and stick with the 2400.
Good luck.
I use CCI small mag primers for my 357 Maximun, fired from a Contender.
As others have expressed, CCI primers tend to be somewhat more stout then others and mau not ignite with a revolver hammer/firing pin strike.
Seat several of your primers and see if they go off in your gun. If they do, go for it, but ditch the Blue Dot and stick with the 2400.
Good luck.
I never found a load I liked using Blue Dot in .357 Magnum. That doesn't mean there's not a good load, but I gave up looking for it. I used up the last of my can of BD in heavy .45 Colt loads, just to get rid of it. Turned out to be a great load; why didn't I try it while I still had more than 2 or 3 ounces of powder left? 
.357 Mag/SR primer/Blue Dot powder
Damon: I contacted CCI earlier this morning and spoke with [Sargent Thornberry] in reference to the SP Mag/SR primer topic herein discussed. The SP Mag and the SR primers are NOT--read that--ARE NOT the same, and are not interchangeable.
Further...He referred me to RCBS's [John Sager] who has ties with data and input in SPEER's manuals. I have yet to speak with him, but I will take what Mr. Thornberry says as the word on the primer deal.
Xandi: It would be in your best interest to speak with either Mr. Thornberry at CCI, or Mr. Sager at RCBS (800-533-5000 EXT 112) and check for yourself.
As for the rest of you who use the rifle primers in your loads and haven't experienced any problems....I am very glad for you....but the fact is--the rifle primer is hotter than the Pistol Mag primer and definitely should not be used in any pistol loads. But, as already stated in previous posts, the choice is yours to make, or having already been made....is dangerous......ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. With or without Blue Dot.
The loads listed in SPEER's manuals do list Blue Dot for the cartridges listed earlier, and even for the .38 Spl. and .357.....BUT they are loaded with a SP standard primer. If the hotter primers were acceptable, or needed with the Blue Dot, they would have been listed; 'Nuff said.
WILL
Damon: I contacted CCI earlier this morning and spoke with [Sargent Thornberry] in reference to the SP Mag/SR primer topic herein discussed. The SP Mag and the SR primers are NOT--read that--ARE NOT the same, and are not interchangeable.
Further...He referred me to RCBS's [John Sager] who has ties with data and input in SPEER's manuals. I have yet to speak with him, but I will take what Mr. Thornberry says as the word on the primer deal.
Xandi: It would be in your best interest to speak with either Mr. Thornberry at CCI, or Mr. Sager at RCBS (800-533-5000 EXT 112) and check for yourself.
As for the rest of you who use the rifle primers in your loads and haven't experienced any problems....I am very glad for you....but the fact is--the rifle primer is hotter than the Pistol Mag primer and definitely should not be used in any pistol loads. But, as already stated in previous posts, the choice is yours to make, or having already been made....is dangerous......ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. With or without Blue Dot.
The loads listed in SPEER's manuals do list Blue Dot for the cartridges listed earlier, and even for the .38 Spl. and .357.....BUT they are loaded with a SP standard primer. If the hotter primers were acceptable, or needed with the Blue Dot, they would have been listed; 'Nuff said.
WILL
Last edited by a moderator: