Hope I'm in the right forum for this question, first thread. Just starting to load for 223 semi-auto and 308win semi-auto and bolt. Is it safe to add the starting load and max load ( from loading manuals) together divide by 2 and use that as a starting load. Thanks for all help.
Rifle loads
- Thread starter jhselle54
- Start date
Don Fischer
New member
I only shoot bolt rifle's. I back off 10% and then work my way up 1/2 gr at a time, watching for pressure sign's. If your looking for the most accurate load's, people feel that pretty much the place to be is nearer the bottom of listed data rather than the top. If you back off 10% you'll be above to magic spot. I push it but then I only hunt and to a degree, performance means more to me than accuracy. You can have both in acceptable amount's.
ShootistPRS
New member
First, there is a reloading forum, but I will answer your question too.
With the cartridges you list using a load between the start and maximum can save some time if you are going to work up a load to find the best accuracy. That being said you should know that there is different load data for 223 depending on the gun being semi-auto or bolt action. I have also seen data for 308 and 3006 semi-autos that varies from the bolt action load data. The difference is in the guns and how they operate. Slower powders tend to push more gas through the system causing the parts to beat themselves to death when dealing with semi-autos. This is not a hard fast rule but something to watch for.
With the cartridges you list using a load between the start and maximum can save some time if you are going to work up a load to find the best accuracy. That being said you should know that there is different load data for 223 depending on the gun being semi-auto or bolt action. I have also seen data for 308 and 3006 semi-autos that varies from the bolt action load data. The difference is in the guns and how they operate. Slower powders tend to push more gas through the system causing the parts to beat themselves to death when dealing with semi-autos. This is not a hard fast rule but something to watch for.
I agree with the above on lower levels being most times the best accuracy. I don't load for a 308 auto but bolt actions. As for my AR I find mid level loads of Benchmark gives me my best accuracy and great speeds with bullets ranging from 55-70 grain. With a 1-9 barrel twist I'm handicapped on larger grain bullets.
You need to post this in re-loading section a couple of groups down.
If you are an experienced loader, you don't divide by 2, you just go half way.
I recommend new loaders start at the low end. There will usually be an accuracy node between that and mid load.
If you aren't going long, then its easier on the shooter, the barrel and saves a bit on each load.
There is usually a second node between half and full.
Often it is less than full.
If you are an experienced loader, you don't divide by 2, you just go half way.
I recommend new loaders start at the low end. There will usually be an accuracy node between that and mid load.
If you aren't going long, then its easier on the shooter, the barrel and saves a bit on each load.
There is usually a second node between half and full.
Often it is less than full.
Safe? as in, will it blow up my gun?? I highly doubt it will blow up your gun.
However, its not a good practice, nor is there any valid reason to do it that way.
Every gun and ammo component combination has the potential to act differently. Usually the variation is very slight, often unnoticeable, but sometimes, it is extreme.
You and I don't have the same gun they used for their load testing. Even if it is the same make and model, its NOT the SAME gun. We don't have the exact components they used, either. Even if we use their bullet, and the "same" brand of powder, cases, & primers, different lot#s of components can give differing results.
Again, most will be very similar, close enough to make reloading data useful guidelines. And, there is NO way to tell, exactly what results you will get, until your shoot.
Gun A might shoot ok, but not cycle reliably with a given load. Guns B through Y might work fine, everything normal, and gun Z might give you cratered, flattened primers and sticky extraction, ALL WITH THE SAME LOAD.
There is no hard and fast rule, other than different combinations of factors MAY behave differently. This is why we start low, slowly (in small steps) working up to upper or max listed loads. It is the only way to know what will work properly in your gun, and where your gun sets its own limits.
Moving this to the reloading forum, where you will probably be flooded with well meant advice. Beware of information overload!
"...Is it safe to..." Not unsafe, but not useful either. You'll just have a mid range or lower load with some powders. Using a 125 grain .30 cal using Varget, for example, it'll be 49 grains. Max is 50.0(C). Using a 150 and H4895 it's 44.5 with a max of 45.5.
"...If you are an experienced loader, you don't divide by 2, you just go half way..." You don't go half anywhere. You follow your manual religiously.
"...the same gun they used for their load testing..." Very likely wasn't a particular rifle anyway. Usually a universal receiver.
"...If you are an experienced loader, you don't divide by 2, you just go half way..." You don't go half anywhere. You follow your manual religiously.
"...the same gun they used for their load testing..." Very likely wasn't a particular rifle anyway. Usually a universal receiver.
It's called a "starting load" for a reason.
Will what you are suggesting cause a catastrophic failure resulting in the loss of life, limb or permanent disfigurement? Probably not.
My concern is that people have been reloading for generations. An industry has grown up around the hobby to support it. The experts in reloading publish and regularly update manuals telling people:
- How to do it,
- How to do it safely,
- How to do it accurately, and
- How to get the most out of their efforts.
What I tell people starting out is to go get a couple of reloading manuals. Read the first part of the manual on how to reload thoroughly.
Then read it again.
Based on what you have gleaned from the manuals, sit down and draft up your own set of written reloading procedures and use it as a checklist each time you reload. The first time you catch a case with no powder (called a "squib") or a case with a double charge, you'll cherish that checklist.
And then after you have been reloading successfully for twenty or thirty years, you'll have enough expertise to know when you can break the rules. But by then you'll understand the full range of consequences that can come from breaking the rules and you probably will decide not to.
Good luck.
I would suggest we don't break rules, we get a good idea where there be dragons and tread very carefully in those areas.
Starting low is far more better.
Small cases are more prone to dangerous variations than larger ones. It doesn't take much to affect a 223, it takes more to affect a 30-06.
9mm and 380 are very intolerant because of the tiny amounts of powder.
Re-loading references disagree because their guns disagree and as noted, even identical guns and loads will have differences.
Bottom line is a minimum of two references (Hornady and Sierra for me though I have a few others). I like those two because they have a lot of bullet variations and they test a lot of powders.
Others much narrower.
And take two different reloading manual (Hornady and Sierra say) and they disagree on where low is!
Then you scan the breadth of that load. If its a very narrow range, then go with the very lowest.
If its a broader range powder, then you can use the higher low start point (the last one I checked Sierra was a lot lower than Hornady with a wide range powder. You have to figure Hornady gun did not get acceptable accuracy until they got to their staring load, Sierra got it a lot lower.
Frankly I always start low as I am looking for that low node for most of my shooting anyway.
Starting low is far more better.
Small cases are more prone to dangerous variations than larger ones. It doesn't take much to affect a 223, it takes more to affect a 30-06.
9mm and 380 are very intolerant because of the tiny amounts of powder.
Re-loading references disagree because their guns disagree and as noted, even identical guns and loads will have differences.
Bottom line is a minimum of two references (Hornady and Sierra for me though I have a few others). I like those two because they have a lot of bullet variations and they test a lot of powders.
Others much narrower.
And take two different reloading manual (Hornady and Sierra say) and they disagree on where low is!
Then you scan the breadth of that load. If its a very narrow range, then go with the very lowest.
If its a broader range powder, then you can use the higher low start point (the last one I checked Sierra was a lot lower than Hornady with a wide range powder. You have to figure Hornady gun did not get acceptable accuracy until they got to their staring load, Sierra got it a lot lower.
Frankly I always start low as I am looking for that low node for most of my shooting anyway.