Rifle Help-- BEGINNER :/

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dcramirez55

Inactive
Okay so here's the deal. I'm sure you've heard it a million times, but I myself have not! I'm starting out and I'm pretty much a blank slate. Need loads of help or maybe a link or two to an article that can help. I'm looking to purchase a rifle, and I'm leaning towards the Remington 700. Problem is there's dozens of variations of the rifle. There's the SPS, Varmint types, etc. What's the difference between them? For example if I purchase a Varmint Rifle does that mean I can only kill small game? When I go to the Remington site I notice that most rifles don't really differ ( well at least to me ) the stock may be different, the barrel longer, but is the action pretty much the same?

Now I want to buy a good starter Remington 700 but where to I begin? I'm probably going to be hunting deer. I like the .308 but I there's plenty of great calibers I've read up on. Now what do I need to know? If I purchase a decent starter R700 can I throw my own stock on there? I've seen two I like, the Axxiom U/L stock by Blackhawk, and the AICS stock? If the action on the R700's are more or less than same can I throw one of these stocks on there? Does anyone have experience with either of these? Also what's the deal with the barrel? Is longer good, or shoter? Fluted? Heavy? No clue here. I'd like to have a good long distance, accurate rifle. Anyway I'm sure I have a ton of questions but that's just for starters. I'd like to buy a decent starter, maybe throw a nicer stock on it, kill some deer etc. Any help would be appreciated. Besides the M4 I use everyday, I have nooooo clue about guns or hunting in fact. Would appreciate the help guys. Thanks!
 
I'm no rifle expert, but I would firstly advise against changing of stocks or worrying about aftermarket accessories on a rifle until you're sharp as a razor with one in it's stock configuration. Such modifications can severely alter accuracy for the better or worse in a centerfire rifle, especially a bolt.

Second, don't look at a rifle's model name to determine what you can or cannot use it for. Caliber will determine this. What do you plan to hunt? If deer are the biggest quarry for you, I think a good starting point would be .270 or .308 Winchester and if pressed I'd take the .308.

For a starter rifle, I would recommend taking into account what you learn from responses here and looking into a used Savage 110 or Remington 700. I personally love lever guns, but they are usually very different from a bolt in the way their common calibers perform and better approached as a seperate undertaking.

Also, you stated you use an M4 every day...since you are accustomed to the platform you may want to shell out the dough for a good AR chambered in .308. Accuracy on a fine AR in .308 can rival a bolt if I'm not mistaken and you don't have a new manual of arms to digest.
 
Since you didn't elaborate on where you are located and just said deer in general, do yourself a favor and find a Savage Model 10 in .243 Win. The Predator Brush is a great gun but they make others. Its a perfect beginner cartridge suitable for deer, low recoil, inherently accurate and flat shooting. There is s decent range in bullet weights and you can target shoot and hunt with it without breaking the bank. Also, the .243 Win is very popular and found in most place. Later on you can move to a bigger .308 Case family by changing the barrel or buying another gun.
 
+ 1 for the Savage 10. They have a tupperware stock on them but out of the box accuracy is very hard to beat. If you are talking of re-stocking in the future anyways.....
Also recommend .308 or .243. My Savage 10fp le1 (pre accu-trigger) chambered in .308win has been used on yotes, ground hogs, deer, bear, wild boar at 850lbs and would not stop at trying to put a Nosler AccuBond 200gr into an elk or moose. I had a couple Rem 700's, but with a stock from Richards Microfit, you can have it your way. P.S. Even a 99% inlet needs the front action screw hole drilled and a good bit of shaping on the outer stock as well as the inner barrel channel and action, mag-well, trigger slot, recoil pad.....
http://rifle-stocks.com/
I have used 5 of their stocks on my own, currently doing 2 for a friend, and have worked another 20+ for other friends. Anyone can do it with a good bit of research and patience. If you finish one inside of 4-6 months (hobbie hours) you will be left wondering how it could have been. I do pillaring and bedding in every stock. Finish with a fine inner glass skim. Outside is ALWAYS a hand rubbed oil finish.
My Mossberg 100 ATR in .308 was bought for $100.00 at a pawn shop. Stock was Custom Rollover Style Grade AA Fancy $189.00. A good bit of elbow grease and much learned practice, SOLD $1250.00.
 
Forget about the varmint varieties if you are doing "normal" hunting. It isn't that their caliber is always different (although sometimes it is). A varmint rifle typically has a heavier barrel more suited to long-range shooting. While a varmint rifle in a deer-sized caliber will certainly kill deer dead, you'll get awfully tired of lugging it around.
 
Great so far. I've reviewed the Bushmaster's chambered in the .308. Looks pretty solid, and it's similar to what I'm used to. Would the Bushmaster be as accurate and as good long distance as the R700?

I'm going to hunt deer. I've recently been stationed in the southern part of Texas and the big thing folks do out in these parts is hunt deer. Well maybe the occasional javelina. (feral pigs)

Barrel wise what's the breakdown? I understand you wouldn't want to lug around a heavy barrel, but there's also the difference in lengths offered. Does this effect the distance and accuracy? I see there's short barrels, long ones, and does a fluted barrel make a gigantic difference?

As for the stocks it's just something I've picked up reading a few articles. Plus some of them look pretty sweet. They boast adding accuracy, reducing recoil etc. Does anyone have any experience with any of the following stocks? The Blackhawk Knoxx U/L stock, the AICS A5 stock, or the Bell & Carlson A5? I do understand that re-tooling a rifle with a new stock might not be the best idea for a beginner, but if it was professionally done would it be worth it? Basically has anyone heard anything good, bad? Doesn't hurt to know.

And one more thing, duracoat! What's the deal with duracoating a weapon? This doesn't affect the weapon in any negative way does it? Has anyone had it done? I'd prefer a camo type so through my research I've come across duracoating. So far all the info has helped a ton, trust me, I appreciate it.
 
I would recomend since you are in South Texas get a Savage Edge/Axis in .243. It will kill any deer, or javalina that is hit properly without fail. Easy on the shoulder, and the wallet. You save a ton of money over purhasing the AR platform. The Savage is friendly for people that want to customize them them selves. The Savage would literaly cost well under a third what the AR would. That is a whole lot of ammo, and range time. Not to mention you can spend some of the saved money on upgrades if you wish to.

Oh it should be know I owm a Savage Model 12 Long Range Target and Varmint chambered in .223 Rem. Has the Accutirgger. It is deadly insane acurate.
 
I wouldn't say the Bushmaster would be quite as accurate as a bolt, but...you're not likely to care about the difference. Both VERY accurate. I would look into a DPMS .308. I'm considering one myself and have heard good things (about the .308). It's not as expensive as a Noveske or an Armalite but will do what you're asking, I think.
 
Plus some of them look pretty sweet. They boast adding accuracy, reducing recoil etc.
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Apparently, their boasting did the job and convinced you it was something you needed. Use your money for ammo until you are sure that you are as good with the original set up as you can possible get.

I don't own any aftermarket stocks - I am fine with what came on the rifle.

I do understand that re-tooling a rifle with a new stock might not be the best idea for a beginner, but if it was professionally done would it be worth it?
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To me - heck no! More range time will do more to improve your shooting than a new stock when you are just starting out.

.308 is fine for what you are talking about, maybe more than what I would chose for javelina (which are not feral pigs). I would chose a 30-06 (long action .308), just because that is what I like or step down to a .243.
 
A Remington 700 or a Savage 10/110 (10 is the short action and 110 is the long action) would be great rifles and the Savage also has an adjustable trigger. You would spend a lot of money trying to get an AR to shoot as well as either one of them will shoot right out of the box. The first thing I would do before putting money toward any accessories other than a good sling is to get the best scope your budget allows for. Also, if recoil is a concern, choose your calibers wisely and purchase a good recoil pad. The recoil pad or lack there of will make far more difference than the stock itself. If you aren't shooting anything larger than south Tx deer and are concerned about recoil, there is nothing wrong with a 243. There are many calibers that would do the job just fine but some are more expensive to shoot, some are harder to get ammo for, and some have a lot more recoil. Personally, for what you are describing, I would suggest a 270 Winchester. Another good choice would be a 25-06 which falls between the 243 and 270 in power and recoil and it shoots slightly flatter.
 
Great so far. I've reviewed the Bushmaster's chambered in the .308. Looks pretty solid, and it's similar to what I'm used to. Would the Bushmaster be as accurate and as good long distance as the R700?

I'm going to hunt deer. I've recently been stationed in the southern part of Texas and the big thing folks do out in these parts is hunt deer. Well maybe the occasional javelina. (feral pigs)

Barrel wise what's the breakdown? I understand you wouldn't want to lug around a heavy barrel, but there's also the difference in lengths offered. Does this effect the distance and accuracy? I see there's short barrels, long ones, and does a fluted barrel make a gigantic difference?

As for the stocks it's just something I've picked up reading a few articles. Plus some of them look pretty sweet. They boast adding accuracy, reducing recoil etc. Does anyone have any experience with any of the following stocks? The Blackhawk Knoxx U/L stock, the AICS A5 stock, or the Bell & Carlson A5? I do understand that re-tooling a rifle with a new stock might not be the best idea for a beginner, but if it was professionally done would it be worth it? Basically has anyone heard anything good, bad? Doesn't hurt to know.

And one more thing, duracoat! What's the deal with duracoating a weapon? This doesn't affect the weapon in any negative way does it? Has anyone had it done? I'd prefer a camo type so through my research I've come across duracoating. So far all the info has helped a ton, trust me, I appreciate it.
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A semiauto .308 can be as accurate as an out-of-the-box bolt-action rifle, but you'll pay at least twice as much for the semi.

Unless you're shooting at very long range (think >600yd for a deer caliber), barrel length is not too far up the list of things to worry about.

Fluting looks nice and allows you to show off, but again, you'll have a really tough time finding a hunting situation where a fluted barrel is better than a regular sporter (thin) barrel.

The stocks you mentioned are for shooting from a bench, and as such are bulky and heavy. The lightest stock you mentioned by over 2lb, the Blackhawk Knoxx U/L weighs IIRC an ounce or two more than the factory Remington 700 SPS stock. No deer caliber has recoil such that you would need a fancy recoil-reducing stock to hunt with it. I don't think you want to spend $400-$800 to be able to hump 3 extra oddly-shaped pounds into the woods. The Nut behind the trigger is the most important part of any firearm. It's best to improve that first, before shelling cash out for metal bits.

I've Gun-Koted (like duracoat, but cures in an oven) enough stuff to know that it's unnecessary for a hunting rifle. Sure, it's more durable than regular paint, but it will still wear off after a while and the factory finishes on any rifle you buy will last very well. If you want the camo look, I would suggest just using rattle cans and touching up as necessary. Much less application hassle.
 
I would worry less about the stock than I would about practice ammo, and maybe a good scope.

I would also be more likely to install or upgrade iron sights, before I would consider changing a stock.

A good peep type iron sight is very handy, and similar to the day sight aperture on your M4, or an M1 or M1A.

For hogs, shots may be closer and faster; a ghost ring - like the night sight aperture on the M4/M16, could be good. I like ghost rings on brush guns, as they are fast to acquire the target.

Just like on the M4/M16, a tighter aperture works better for longer range shots.
 
To reinforce what others have said, for "ordinary" use fluted barrels look pretty but don't add performance. Varmint or target barrels are usually more accurate due to wall thickness, if the same quality of manufacturer, but being heavier aren't fun to carry around--overall gun weight is the big thing, but the barrel contributes a great deal to the rifle's weight.

Barrel length affects performance some if too short for the load, and longer are better to a point: look up ammo mfr's testing data, or just pick something in the middle if you don't care to do that. Use factors in, shorter being easier to maneuver through brush.

Find a stock that fits you, ideally on a stock rifle so you can spend the $$ on quality of rifle, but buy an after-market stock if you must--but for fit, not just looks.

For a first rifle and deer as primary use, I suggest a versatile caliber with easy-to-find ammo, .30-06, .270 winchester, or .308 all being good choices. Or .243 if you'd prefer something on the lighter side due to physical stature or dislike of recoil. .243 should be plenty for javelina's, generally considered the minimum caliber for deer but it's taken plenty.
 
Best deer rifle I've ever owned (sadly no more) was a Remington 700 mountain rifle in 30-06. Very accurate and looked good too, had a leupold 6x scope on it and took I don't know how many deer. Pretty light weight with a wood stock, around 7 -8 pounds with scope and sling. Been looking for a replacement for it recently, no luck yet though. If I could find one like the one I had, I'd buy it asap.
 
Having owned many rifles, let me tell you what I would do if I were starting all over again. I rotate among 2 primary deer rifles but both of them are so pretty that I'm almost afraid to carry them in the field. If I were going to do it all over again, I'd definately make sure one was a "field" rifle. I.E., a relatively low-dollar rifle with a composite stock. Something I wouldn't be fearful of getting banged on a 4wheeler or scratched on a rock. You can get a stainless Marlin brand new for about $400 that will shoot just as good as something twice or three times as expensive.
 
Plain ole Savage model 10 or Remington 700BDL in .308. No fluting, fancy stocks, etc. For godness sakes don't paint or Duracoat a new rifle. Don't be a cheapskate on the scope, it's every bit as important as the rifle you're putting it on.
 
DC, you didn't exactly state where in S Texas but anything from Del Rio to the Valley makes for LONG shots. A 308 at absolute bottom. A 243 or a 2506 in this country is like going bear hunting with a BB gun. That's why it's important as to the "where" you are going to hunt with the rifle. A good common cartridge is the 3006 but a lot of folks down here hunt with the 300 Winchester Magnum. That maybe more gun than a newby might want to buy. But stick with a fairly large cartridge of 30 caliber and you'll do fine. As far as the brand of rifle, the 700 in most any form is good as well as the Savage. Since it's your first, I'd suggest a plastic stock in stainless. Maintenance is next to nothing and weather doesn't bother them so much. A wood or blued action can get crazy down here with the heat and occasional high humidity. If you're living on the border like Laughlin, it would probably pay to drive to San Antonio to buy it. Prices in the border towns are usually higher than full list price. You might consider used and if you get to San Antonio, go by Powderhorn and ask for David. He owns the shop and won't sell you a bad weapon. Durys is also a good one but expect to pay more. Durys has a lifetime warranty on all guns they sell. You don't like it- they take it back, no hassles. Durys has a website if you want to check on what they have.

Best of luck and stay frosty. The mexican drug dealers are thick as flys in the brush this time of year.

And by the way, a Javalina is not a pig. They are a peccary and in the case of those in S Texas, are closer related to the rat family than a pig. During mating season the boars stink awful. When they are like that, forget eating one. But there are a lot of feral hogs in the area to keep you busy. If you want to PM me I can give you directions on how to protect yourself from disease hunting quarantined hogs in Texas.
 
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Loader, what kind of deer and javelinas do you have down there that require a .300 mag? You must run them through a squeeze chute and hit them with ralgro or synovex like we do our cattle up here!
 
I have always maintained that for someone who is new to the hunting scene, that you go down to your local rifle range and get to know a few of the people there. We are all proud of our firearms and someone who appears to admire them is usually welcome to fire a round or two.

Nothing beats a good test drive and once you have found one that you really like and is suitable for hunting then that is probably going to be your best bet.
 
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