Revolvers in 1903

S

steelbird

New member
Forgive me if this is posted in the wrong section....

A friend of mine has gotten me into a film project where I'm playing an outlaw type, circa 1903 here in Saint Augustine. I'd like to keep my role accurate, gun-wise. I know the old SAA types were still in use in 1903, but I don't know how common they were. I know about the S&W breaktops, Schofield types, and the H&R's, and the Iver Johnsons, but I can't seem to nail down which models ( or those that look like them ) would have been present at the time. Would the Russian Nagants have been here as well? Looking to find out what revolvers (no semi autos, as farI as I know, for this project ) would look the part for 1903. This would also be used with blanks for filming.
Thanks!
 
Both Colt and S&W had swing out cylinder revolvers in 1903, the S&W Military and Police revolver, the ancestor of the Model 10, and the Colt New Army and Navy revolver. The S&W breaktop revolvers were still very popular, in both the open and concealed hammer models. Colt pocket revolvers in .32 were considered adequate for use by plainclothes police. Note that those Colt swing cylinder revolvers would be the old style without the hammer block safety and would have had the old frame shape.

For the most part, if you used a modern S&W Model 10 (blued and without the key lock) and put old style grips on it, few people would know or notice the differences. It depends a bit on how accurate you need (or want) to be. The Colt Army and Navy is a pretty common gun, and available in good shape at reasonable prices. Colt Single Actions were no longer the service revolver, and had never been common or popular in the east, so (assuming your St. Augustine is the one in FL) I would not use one.

For those characters who might not be able to afford quality guns, any of the old time H&R, IJ, F&H, would do fine. So would a Bulldog revolver, either U.S. or British.

I doubt that anyone in the U.S. in 1903 had ever heard of a Russian Nagant revolver or would have known one if they fell over it.

HTH

Jim
 
This is a Smith & Wesson M&P that I own. This particular example was manufactured in 1902. It's one of the first revolvers made in .38 Special.

1899C.jpg
 
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This is the Colt 1877 Thunderer. This particular specimen is in 41 Colt and is a double-action revolver. The 1877 was manufactured by Colt until 1909. I am posting this model not because they're cheap and plentiful (far from it), but you can find modern day single action reproductions of this model for a fraction of the cost of an original. It's also just a neat looking revolver in my opinion.

Thunderer.jpg
 
It's one of the first revolvers made in .38 Special.
Click to expand...

That's a Smith & Wesson Military and Police Model of 1899.

That gun introduced the M&P AND the .38 Special to the world.

And we are forever grateful. :)
 
Here's an odd one for you,,,

Model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modèle_1892_revolver,,,
DA/SA 6 shot revolver.

07-margeaux.JPG


The cartridge is very similar to a 32 Long.

It was manufactured for the French military,,,
But was also available to private citizens.

I was told they were quite common around the New Orleans area.

One of my gun books said it was the first military handgun,,,
To be designed for smokeless powder.

Anyways, just want to give you another option.

Aarond

.
 
The good old Colt sixgun "Peacemaker" would have come to Florida with the cowpokes.
Long after the Old West was tamed, Florida was still frontier land.
And lots of Cowmen came to the Florida cattle country.
No doubt they brought their gear with them, including their tried and true shootin' irons.
 
Thanks for the responses so far -

It seems that for authenticity's sake, the single action guns should be avoided. Model 10 looks like a good choice. I don't know how accurate he wants this thing to be, though - his character is local law enforcement, with an 1873 type. He's not quite into keeping things as accurate as I am. I suppose he wants his character to be old school for his day.
So are there any particular IJ or HR breaktop models that would be appropriate for this time frame?
BTW, Saint Augustine, Florida is the place.
Thanks for the photo, Aaron. That looks a bit like a Nagant - I know the French and the Russians had a lot of ties to each other, I wonder if the Nagant design was a result of that.
Granted, this may all be moot because I'm unsure how "real" this is supposed to be, but I appreciate the input.
 
The problem is that you're looking at price and availability being an issue. But there are those that would work - if you can find them.

Colt New Service (1898-World War II). This specimen was made circa 1912.
ColtNewService.jpg


Colt Army-Navy revolver (1892-1909). This one was made in the late 1890's.
ColtArmyNavy.jpg


Smith & Wesson M&P (1898-Present). This one was made in the twenties, but in late 1902 S&W added the front lock to the ejecter rod (the one I own was probably one of the last ones made without the front lock for the ejecter rod) and the pre-WWII M&P's (now called the Model 10 by the way) can pass for an M&P made in 1903. A 1903 looks alot like the example below.
SWModel10Long.jpg
 
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my first model hand ejector .32 in .32 long, serial number 3755. first or second year production, eastbank.
 

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There were dozens of revolver models around in 1903, but realistically, I doubt that French Model 1892 Ordnance revolvers or Russian Nagants were common here. For one thing, the ammunition was never made in the U.S. Spanish copies of several S&W models were sold in the U.S. and Latin America, so they could have turned up.

The Colt 1877 and 1878 models are more likely, but I think the latter would have the same problems as the SAA; it is a big holster gun and even in 1903 open carry in the East was pretty rare and would likely lead to questions by the police. True, Florida was (and still is) cattle country, but by 1903 cowboys were not fighting off Indian raids. Besides, both guns were considered (and looked) old fashioned by that time; both crooks and cops were keeping up with the times.

If auto pistols were not ruled out, the early dual link Colts would certainly have been around, along with a few Lugers and a bit later the ubiquitous M1903 pocket model in .32 ACP.

Jeff, your New Service is not that late; they changed to the new model frame about 1909 so that gun was made before that.

Jim
 
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If just using blanks, finding a Spanish copy of the S&W pencil barrels would be almost as cost efficient as a decent IJ or such. Most of the old H&R's & IJ's I've seen around here are of the very small size that I couldn't see a self respecting bad guy evil doer being in possession of.
 
Roosevelt carried a Colt Model 1892 Army - Navy revolver in .38 Colt. It was recovered from the sunken remains of the U.S. battleship Maine at the bottom of Havana Harbor. The event that led to the Spanish-American War. A few years ago that same revolver was stolen from the Roosevelt Museum In Sag Harbor New York, but it has since been recovered and is back on display in the museum.
 
Jeff, TR's gun was stolen twice, so I don't know if it's back home again. After all, you know how safe things are in NY. By the way, I wish you had a way to post a couple of those fuzzy pics I sent you. Especially the Colt 94Army and the Colt NS.
 
A topbreak Iver Johnson or Harrington & Richardson would be completely in character for a middle class resident of St Augustine in 1903, someone who could not budget for a Colt or S&W but was not limited to the really cheap Saturday Night Special or Suicide Special revolvers.

Topbreak IJs and H&Rs did not change much for over half a century, so visual authenticity would not depend on your finding an actual period piece. Anything of the type from 1890 to 1940 would look the part.
 
A couple of years ago there was an Article in American Rifleman detailing how the revolver was located in Florida, recovered by the FBI and returned to it's home in New York. Later today (if I remember) I'll look it up in my back issues. The same article also stated that it was stolen twice. The first time the thief got it out of the house/museum then dumped it in the yard. Hopefully the display case is now wired. Evidently it wasn't before.
 
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