Revolver that does .45 ACP, Colt and Casull?

P

Pendragon

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First, is it true that a 454 casull can shoot .45 colt rounds (like .38/.357mag)?

Second, I thought I had seen a SA that had .45ACP and .45 Colt Cylinders.

I would like a very flexible revolver - probably has to be SA that will shoot .45ACP and also a "big" .45 round

I would like to be able to only have to buy one size of bullet - I have a couple 1911s and this would make it easier.

This is what I see myself doing:

1. Plinking
2. Shooting paper
3. Shooting Boar
4. Possibly - maybe - doing IHMSA but at a basic level...
5. MAYBE shooting a deer if thats possible...

Any advice?

I live in CA, but SA revolvers do not have to be "approved" if they are 7" long or so.... (OAL)

I am hoping there is a cool revolver that does it all :)
 
Ruger Blackhawks in double-cylinders for .45ACP and .45LC are a regular cataloged item (blue steel only). Special off-catalog runs of Vaqueros done that way have been done in both stainless and blue.

For .454 power levels in an SA Ruger, you really need a custom 5-shot cylinder for safety. I would assume that whichever gunsmith does the 5-shot conversion can also sell you another cylinder in .45ACP 5-shot.

Ruger's .454 Super Redhawk is rated as able to take .45LC too, in the same cylinder. Freedom Arm's .454 is for some reason NOT so rated, they recommend a second cylinder in .45LC for the lesser round, although I suspect it's more of a "for best accuracy" thing versus safety? Drop www.freedomarms.com an EMail on this if you're really interested. They also have accessory .45ACP cylinders for their .454 guns. So with two or three cylinders, you could get all that out of a Freedom Arms.

Upshot: if you can live with .45LC+P power levels, such as a 325grain hardcast at 1,300fps (Buffallo Bore "Ruger ONLY" factory load), then an off-the-shelf Ruger SA is fine. Past that into .454 territory and prices climb. A lot.
 
What keeps a 454 cartridge from fitting into a 45 LC cylinder?

(not that I intend to try it, I'm just curious)

Is it just a little bit longer like a 357 vs 38?
 
The raging bull in 454 casull? Taurus says not to shoot 45 colt out of it.
Also, when shooting .45 colt out of my friends' raging bull, the accuracy is really, really poor, but in 454 the accuracy is excellent.
The ruger says that you can shoot .45 colt out of their redhawk 454, but I don't know how the accuracy is.
 
TallPine, yes the 454 is a longer cartridge.

FWIW, I had seen someone post a reply he received from FA. The reason FA does not recommend using 45lc in the 454 is because of the pressure the 454 operates at. If there is just a little bit of a ring left where the 45lc case mouth is, it can cause the 454 to exceed design operating pressure. The 454 already starts at pressures higher than normal in other revolver cartridges.
The 454 Casull was adopted as a standard industry cartridge in 1998; the maximum average pressure was set at 65,000psi. The loads shown here were developed on a crusher-type barrel furnished to us by Freedom Armsprior to industry adoption and held to 45,000cup to provide the best performance with Speer bullets.
Click to expand...
From the Speer reloading manual #13
 
I know that FA will provide a second cylinder for 45lc. I suspect they would also be able to make a 45acp cylinder also. Probably wouldn't be cheap though.

Another option in DA may be the Dan Wesson 460 Roland. Will work with: .45 ACP, .45 ACP+P, .45 Super, .45 Win Magnum, 460 Rowland and .45 Auto Rim. Not sure if it has been approved for PRK though.
 
To put 454 pressue in perspective: It operates at the same pressures as a 300 win mag.

If you do shoot 45 lc in a 454, juust be very picky about cleaning it before going back to 454 loads.
 
Freedom's M97 .45LC/ACP Conv.

should do all that you want one for. It's 90% of the size/weight of the larger .454, so it's lighter and more compact. It also has a true-transfer bar safety like Ruger's so that it's safe for carry with all 5 chambers loaded. Read all about it in Taffin's excellent review in the '03 Guns Annual(?, or similar).:D

I can only see the .454 as 'possibly' being of some benefit for IMHSA.
 
One of the guys I shoot with at the range has a Ruger SuperRedhawk in 454 he shoots 45 Long Colt through it all the time with good results. Also I had seen the Vaquero with the 45Acp and the 45Lc cylinder at REEDS in San Jose .:eek:
 
I see two choices for you.

If you really want to shoot low powered stuff like 45ACP (relatively speaking) and higher velocity heavier stuff too, go with the DW460. The 45Win Mag is stouter than the Colt, but not as stout as the 454. And 45ACP and 460 rowland will chamber and shoot just fine. The added bonus of interchangeable barrels, as well as cylinders, and their availability, make this a good choice. I believe you can also shoot 45 autorim and 45LC from this, not real sure.

If 45ACP is just a passing thought, and you want the ability to shoot full house 454, then just get a 454 casull. You can load up some light bullets with small charges of Unique and achieve ballistics similar to a bullseye 45ACP (say 200gr at 750fps). You can also load it up with hot loads for hunting or "ballistic milk jug testing".

I wouldn't bother trying to shoot 45LC from a 454 except in a pinch. If you are loading them yourself, you have no need, and you will want .452 bullets anyway. The problem with the debris ring in the cylinder is very real, especially with lead bullets, and all three models do porrly with .451 bullets. And with the FA, you are going to spend a lot of money on a fine piece of machinery, so you have no excuse trying to save pennies on 45LC brass. The Ruger and Taurus are cheaper, but both are still nice.

There is another off-the-wall choice, and that is the Spectre V or Thunder V, which shoots 45LC or .410 shotshell. It is so ugly and so unique that I want one :D
 
Casull cautions against using Colt in their 454 cylinders. Liability concerns. OK if you clean thoroughly after use. They sell a cylinder in .45 Colt so you never have to use the 454. You could buy one of these (if, as ZZ Topp said "My wallet's fat") and have a smith convert the Colt cylinder to .45 ACP by machining the rear of it for use with moon clips. One gun, two cylinders, 454, 45 C, and 45 ACP.
 
My uncle manufactured the Casull in the early 70's before Freedom arms and, at that time, a selling point was the ready acceptance of the .45 colt. (I've since regretted not buying one when I could possibly get a family rate.) FYI - They had some neat innovations now gone such as a attachable shoulder stock that could be purchased separately.
 
Are you sure about the shoulder stock option? That would be illegal (since 1934) as installation would make the gun a short barelled rifle. Unless the pistol had at least a 16" barrel, of course.
 
Drat. I just noticed the 5" bl Taurus .454 today, and since it's a 5-shooter, thought it'd make a dandy bear blaster...I 'm sorry to hear one can't fire .45 LC through 'er.
 
.45 acp, Colt

Pendragon:

I don't know of a gun that will shoot all three calibers that you suggest, but I have a Blackhawk in .45 acp and Colt. I have been having a ball shooting it in both loadings. I can blast away with the acp and load the daylights out of the colt for hunting. I just received some 300 gr. cast bullets and I intend to load them up for whitetails this fall. The Colt chambering can be loaded very hot in this revolver and I have tried several loads I found on the internet. The gun is very accurate in both chamberings, even more so in acp. I have been shooting bowling pins from a rest at 100 yards and can knock them over pretty consistently. I really like this combination. The Blackhawk is one of my favorite purchases and a gun I seem to go to a lot when I want to go out shooting.

Good luck

Bob
 
There are other single-action choices. I've got two Cimmaron Thunderers, one in 3-1/2" and the other in 4-3/4". These are birdshead grip Colt clones and they come with a 45LC cylinder AND a 45ACP cylinder.

They're nice replicas made by Uberti, color-case hardened and a joy to shoot (and look at). I believe Cimmaron/Uberti also offer the Model P (similar gun, but with traditional "western" grip) with both cylinders.

They will not accept the Casull of course.

Not as beefy or strong a gun as the Rugers, but more than adequate for 45LC or 45ACP and much more closely replicate the "Colt feel" for a whole lot less $$$.
 
The large frame (mod 83) Freedom Arms 454 can be ordered with 3 extra cylinders, 45 colt, 45 acp, and 45 Winchester mag .It can get expensive as each cylinder lists for $264. The medium frame, model 97, in 45 colt can be ordered with a spare 45 acp cylinder. If you reload, the price of 454 brass has come down quite a bit in the last few years, so I'm not sure the price of a extra 45colt cylinder would be worth it.
 
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