Revolver speed loading techinque and equipment questions

S

smsdba

Inactive
I'm a semi-auto (1911) shooter who has recently decided to try out revolvers. They seem really cool. :cool:

I just got a cherry M13-2 4", vintage 1979 and am starting to accessorize (holster, speed loaders, reloading dies, ammo, etc.)

My first question relates to the best/proper/fastest technique for reloading on the fly (IDPA is my eventual goal).

I've seen several right handed revolver folks, using moonclips or speeders, open the cylinder with the right thumb, jack out the cases with their left, hold the opened revolver with their left hand, then use their right to grab the clip/speeder and insert the rounds.

I know I'm a total newbie here, but it would seem to be more efficient/faster to keep the right hand on grip and use the left to put the rounds in. Or does the left hand provide the stabilization needed to keep the cylinder still?

Any technique suggestions, posts or weblinks would be appreciated.

Second question:

My original thought was to have my smith do a cylinder mod to set it up for moon clips. (I know, near sacrilege to do this to such a fine piece of history) Then one of the revolver guys suggested I consider using a Safariland Comp III loader, which uses a compressed spring that pushes the rounds out of the loader.

Anyone have experience with using these and are they truly as fast as (or close to) moon clip reloads, which seems to me to be VERY fast in experienced hands.

It would be nice to avoid the expense of a moon clip mod and nice to keep my M13 in it's 100% original state.

Thanks.
 
First, don't go modifying the gun until you have worked with it some to find out if you need to mess with it. For the price of a moon-clip conversion you can buy a lot of ammo and get really good with a regular speedloader! Second, regarding technique--I've been taught both, as well as a few variations on a theme. Again, try the gun some first. Different techniques will be better (or worse) for different people because of flexibility, dexterity, size of hands/fingers, etc. Once you have experimented a bit to find the best method for you, then you start refining the technique and the gun as needed.
 
In my CCW course, they taught that left hand on cylinder and right hand loading was the correct technique since it's harder for the gun to be removed from the hand then grabbing by the grip.


In competition though, i doubt it would matter.
 
Some things that can speed reloads:

Have the cylinder chamber mouths lightly beveled.
All that's needed is to break the sharp mouths of the chambers.

DO NOT go very deep since this can reduce cartridge head support, and DON'T bevel the ejector.
Get this done by a pro with the correct tooling to do it right.

Second, is just PRACTICE.
It really doesn't matter what speedloader you use, everybody has their own favorites, and quick reloads are a matter of your technique and how much you practice.

The world's BEST revolver man is Jerry Michlek (sp?).
He has info available on how he does it.

Basically, he opens the gun, holds it in his left hand and very positively ejects the empties, by hitting the ejector rod AND shaking the gun downward.
Meanwhile, he's grabbing a reload with his right hand.

To do the actual reload, he brings both hands in to his body, where stability is higher.
He inserts the reload, closes the cylinder, grabs the gun with his right hand, locks on with his left, and starts shooting.
 
I shot PPC Revolver competitions for quite a number of years, the technique is the same on the street, here's how we did it.

Open cylinder, let it rest in the left hand, left thumb and forefinger envelop the cylinder.
146079.jpg


To empty, push ejection rod with the left hand and invert pistol so the empties drop free.
146080.jpg


To reload, insert speedloader and push to release on a Safariland speed loader, left thumb pushes the cylinder closed as speed loader is allowed to drop free. You would normally have the revolver more upright so the cartridges will drop into the cylinder, I couldn't show that with one hand on the camera.
146094.jpg
 
The top revolver competitors use moonclips and the left hand on cyldinder method. I have done the other way just as well as I can with the left hand hold, but watching Jerry has led me to decide to retry his method in the future.

Uh, IDPA doesn't allow moonclips unless they are factory standard. No more than 6 shots between reload, either, so higher cap guns need to dump rounds. Also, tactical reloads with retention of unused rounds is easier with loose rounds where they will need to be used again later. If the rounds are not to be used later, moonclip is fine.
 
Listen to G56

A man that used to ride the trains with Harry Truman showed me this method and it works. What I liked best about this method was the VERY POSITIVE hold I had on the gun at all times and how fast it got back into the shooting hand ready to fire.

Yes moon clips work but it takes away from the value of the gun as a trade in and speed clips are just as fast and you can buy a lot of speed clips for the price of one cylinder mod for moon clips
 
To add to the above techniques:

When you grab the speedloader, NEVER grab it by the release knob.
Grab it by the body, and insert it into the cylinder, THEN release it with the knob.

As you turn the knob, use the thumb on the other hand to rotate the cylinder. This will release the cartridges from the loader and allow them to fall into the chambers. .

Two reasons for this.
First, better fine motor skills when holding the main body of the loader than a shaky hold with the knob.

Second, the danger of accidentally turning the knob and dumping your reload.
 
I learned in PPC and do it as illustrated by G56. I have seen people load a revolver with the left hand, and it can be done quickly if everything goes well. But I agree with Ayoob's take, hold the big piece, the gun, in the off hand, and the little piece, the reload, in the strong hand. Shifting of the gun from hand to hand happens while the gun is coming down to reload and back up on target.

Under Final Revised NEW New IDPA rules, moonclip conversions are now allowed BUT that will put you into the new Enhanced Service Revolver division where you will have to load to power factor 165 - low end .357 Magnum, which is a real handful in a K frame.

The long skinny .38/.357 cartridges do not load real well in moon clips anyhow, I have a 686 converted before IDPA disallowed it, and it is no improvement. I have read of ICORE shooters loading for clips with .38 Short Colt brass so the rounds don't wiggle around too much. But they only have to get to power factor 120 or 125.

Comp III speedloaders are good, or SL Variant if you can find them.

A chamber brush is an essential accessory for the combat revolver shooter. One of those six in one deals or just a .40 or .41 caliber bore brush on a short handle will help a lot. Dry brush the cylinder out between stages. Use as clean burning powder or ammo brand as you can find and be sure to hold the muzzle up when ejecting empties. A granule of unburnt powder under the star will bind cylinder rotation and shut you down.

Edit to add:
Dfaris, if you use a Safariland, Jetloader, or SL Variant, there is no knob to turn, just push straight in until the loader releases the cartridges. One less function to control and no risk of twirling the cylinder if you don't brace it enough.
 
Dfariswheel good add there

That sounds like a very good idea about holding the speed loader.
IM gonna try that, it sounds good!
Thank you
 
Get "jet loaders" sold by Buffer Technologies, very fast. Revolver only needs a basic tune and cylinder chamfer. You need lots of practice. I suggest dummy ammo while sitting infront of the tv.

Good Luck!
 
I'll have to disagree with the comment that speedloaders are as fast as moonclips. If they were, the top competitors would use them. At the International Revolver Championships and at International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiast meets speedloaders are conspicuous by their absence. Most shoot .38 spl or .45 acp with a sprinkling of shortened .38s and .38 super.

Another benefit of moonclips is that all rounds come out at once. The combined weight minimizes stuck brass and the fact that they come out as a unit eliminates brass stuck under the star or in front of the cylinder release. Very positive brass dump.

Speedloaders cost about $6.00 or more. SL Variants are up around $28. For competition you will want at least six, which is a minimum of $30. If you decide to buy a revolver that has moonclips like many of the S&W PC models, there is no conversion cost. The conversion costs about $80 and moonclips about $3.50.

If frugality is the concern and you do not plan to buy many replacements, buy speedloaders. If you do heavy competition and find a need to replace speedloaders, the breakeven point between speedloaders and moonclip conversion can come up pretty quickly. The percentage of speedloaders I've had to replace vs moonclips (none) tips me to moonclips.

If speed and reload reliability are of interest, moonclips are a good bet. Or the best bet if you go by the wisdom of the top revolver competitors.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the great posts

G56, thanks for taking the time to provide images of the technique, it was helpful.

Dfariswheel, good tips on the cylinder/speeder holds.

Jim W., I've trained with Ayoob, but it was semi auto. He's an awesome dude and his LFI class was jammed with useful content. Good points about weak hand holds the big piece, strong hand the little. You beat me to the response on the new ESR division. Is a 165 PF a lot for 357 mag? Don't know, just got a chrony and the dies and haven't started loading for it yet.

Guy, in my casual observations at IDPA club practice, I would agree that the moonclip people seem a good bit faster than the speeder reloaders. I've ordered the Safari Comp IIIs for now and will get just the chamfer done. I'll practice and shoot this way for a while, this way I can go SSR AND ESR divisions.

Thanks everyone for your input!
 
Mike,
Thell Reed could speedload a SA. He had a SAA with .45ACP cylinder and he loaded it out of a 1911 magazine. I have seen stills of that but people who saw him in person said he could reload a SAA faster than most people could a DA with loose ammo.

smsdba,
I shot some IPSC Revolver with low end .357s; a 158 at 1130 for PF 178 before Major was lowered to 165. That was about all the fun I wanted in a Python or 686 and think it would be hard to handle in a K frame for a long match. It may very well take .38 Special +P to make PF 125 in your gun, especially if you want jacketed bullets. I think you will find that enough.
 
I don't know about the snubby, but a PF of 125 is easy with a 158 gr. bullet in a 4" barrel. Surprisingly I find that the same load travels faster from my 4" M66 than from either my 5" 627 or 6" 686+. Smaller B/C clearance, I suppose, though I've never bothered to measure.

I am not a hot competitor so the difference in recovery time between a PF of 125 and 140 doesn't mean anything to me (most certainly does to the hard core competitors, though). Rather than dink around worrying whether the rounds are going to be tested on a cold day or some other thing I just routinely load to 900 fps with the 158 gr for a PF of about 140 out of the 4" barrel.
 
I consider speedloaders to be horrible in a self defense/combat situation. Much better to buy a revolver that shoots a semi-auto round and reload with moon clips.
Fine motor skills degrade terribly in stressful situations and there is just too much manipulation and precise technique required for this to be a good defense reloading method. I've seen people get their speedloaders jammed against the gun all too often even when they are just practicing, let alone defending their life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top