Revolver Noob: S&W 686 vs Model 27

sigcurious

New member
I've decided that sooner than later I'd like to add a revolver to my collection, and I am drawn to the 686 and Model 27. This would be for range/target use, so I was looking at the 4 and 6 inch barrel versions.

However, I know pretty much nothing about revolvers, so understanding the differences between the two aside from looks is lost on me. So I'm hoping the revolver pros on TFL can school me a bit on these two models, and if aside from feel in hand, if one or the other has features better suited to someone new to revolvers.
 
I'm talking about prelocks from my experience now.

686, a bit lighter, smaller grip frame, I'd give it an 8 out of 10 on strength with full magnum loads.

27, HEAVY, Full N frame grip, 10 out of 10 on strength with full mag. loads - less recoil. I have a 5" along with a couple of old 4/6" 28s, the utility model of the big N frame 357s.

For daily carry I would prefer the 686 with a good Pachmayr grip. For range, home defense, vehicle carry, or a club fight..... give me a 27 5".
 
Size.

As mentioned, the 686 is a medium/large L-frame, whereas the 27 is the large N-frame. The size of the gun may affect how is fits your hand, how your finger ends up on the trigger, and, in the end, how well you shoot it. The larger cylinder of the N-frame is also heavier, and may give it a heavier (perceived or real) double action trigger pull. If you can, try gripping one of each at a LGS (any N-frame will do), and if they let you, dry fire each.

Another issue for me is speedloader availability. If you ever get interested in getting some or eventually want to take a whack at some gun games, speedloaders available for the N-frame are limited to the twist-type (HKS & 5Star) or hard-to-find-and-expensive SL variants. Safariland makes a very good series of push-release type speedloaders for the 686, but not for an N-frame.
 
Safariland makes a very good series of push-release type speedloaders for the 686, but not for an N-frame.
It should be mentioned that this speedloader is only made for the 6-shot models, not the 7-shot "Plus" versions.

I'll add a few words about finish since it affects the model number. S&W revolvers with a 6x or 6xx model number format have stainless steel finish, and most models with a 6xx model number are the stainless version of the Model "xx" (notable exceptions being the M610 and M632). There is generally no practical difference between stainless models and blued/nickel models produced around the same time, although availability of used ones often varies depending on when certain models were introduced or dropped.

The stainless version of the M27 is the M627; both are available new, but used M27s are more numerous because the M27 has been in the catalog much longer. Newer versions of both guns are available in 8-shot form, but the vast majority of used guns will be 6-shot.

The blued or nickel version of the M686 is the M586, which was dropped from regular production ca. 1999 and just now reintroduced at this year's SHOT Show. Used M586s are relatively abundant and easy to find, but unlike the M686, almost all of them have a 4" or longer barrel, a 6-shot cylinder, no internal lock, and traditional forged lockwork with a hammer-mounted firing pin rather than MIM. Many more M686s were sold after the 7-shot cylinder, the lock, and MIM parts were introduced and <4" barrels were becoming more popular.
 
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I have a 4-inch 686+ with a Trausch grip and I absolutely love it ... an excellent gun, very accurate ... and I have a 7-rd speedloader for it which works very well ... No personal experience with the 27 ...
 
I own one of each. Both are excellent guns. As much as I like the Mod.27, it doesn't do anything better than the 686 and is heavier. Each has a great trigger, is exceptionally accurate, and well made. Overall, I prefer the 686 due to the weight and balance for shooting off-hand.
 
The old Model 27s were the flagship of S&W and the gun they built their reputation on. No question that I'd MUCH rather have the 27 over the 686. 686s are good guns, but they are a dime a dozen and usually nothing to attract much attention. The Model 27 on the otherhand will be the envy of the gun range and will get a lot of folks drooling.
 
I've seen some gripes about the newer versions with the lock on them. Is there a mechanical reason I should perhaps look at older pre-lock versions, or is the aversion more due to, IMHO, the silly nature of the lock on guns?

Also, just from a glance at the pictures I would have totally guessed the 686 was heavier than the 27. I like the classic looks of the 27 the more and more as I look at it. I know I can find 686s locally to handle and probably fire at the range, not so sure about the 27. Hopefully I can find it somewhere to at least handle a 27. There are a few shops that I have yet to check out since moving here.

Edited for morning spelling issues and what not
 
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Also, just from a glance at the pictures I would have totally guessed the 686 was heavier than the 27.
With equal barrel lengths, the two are actually very close in weight.

The key that virtually all M686s have full underlug barrels whereas most M27s do not. This adds weight, but it's all out in front of the gun rather than within the frame. Consequently, the M686 is more muzzle-heavy. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of personal preference.

Also, as an aside, if you really like N frames and you're considering used ones, I strongly suggest cross-shopping the Model 28 "Highway Patrolman". This gun is essentially a M27 with a non-checkered topstrap, satin blued finish instead of high polish bluing or nickel*, and a 4" or 6" barrel with a serrated ramp front sight (numerous other front sights and barrel lengths were available on M27s). IIRC the M28 was discontinued long enough ago that all of them are 6-shot and pre-lock with traditional forged lockwork. M28s used to sell for substantially lower prices than M27s, although recent collector interest has closed the price gap somewhat.

*Factory nickel M28s exist but IIRC they're rare enough that you're unlikely to encounter one in the hands of someone who doesn't know what he or she has. FWIW I would be hesitant to pay a premium for one without a factory letter of provenance. In my experience, a substantial percentage of pre-1970s nickel S&Ws in circulation are refinished, and I've often encountered sellers improperly demanding a premium for these; I've occasionally suspected fraud, but most of the time it's simple ignorance. It's a good idea to research how to spot a poorly-done renickel job.
 
I have a 686 and a 28. brother of the 27.I prefer the 28 and she shoots more accurate!The 27 and 28 have half lugs under the barrel less weight IMO looks better.So I would get the 27 which would only go up in value!
 
I've seen some gripes about the newer versions with the lock on them. Is there a mechanical reason I should perhaps look at older pre-lock versions, or is the aversion more due to, IMHO, the silly nature of the lock on guns?

By and large, people who dislike the lock feel the way they do on principle rather than practical reasons. There have been a very, very few documented cases in which the lock has engaged during recoil and tied up the revolver when the owner didn't want it to, but the number of verifiable cases is small enough in number to be statistically irrelevant.

The vast majority of people who bash the lock do so because they are staunch traditionalists who just don't like the idea of change, dislike the lock for political reasons (they feel that S&W caved in to anti-gun politicians like Bill Clinton by incorporating the feature), or because they think that the lock detracts too much from the look of the gun. Unfortunately, many of the people who dislike the lock for these reasons attempt to blow the small number of documented problems completely out of proportion in order to justify their own preferences.

Unfortunately, many of the lock bashers also don't seem to be able to remain mature when they discuss the matter. Some of the more irritating lock-bashers don't seem to be able to refrain from a tirade about it any time a new S&W product is mentioned even if the discussion isn't about the lock. Likewise, many lock bashers also have stooped to the use of childish invectives like "Smith & Clinton," "Safety Wesson," or referring to the lock as the "Hillary Hole." When you see someone engage in these types of behaviors, you can pretty much be sure that they have an axe to grind and that any claims they make should be looked upon with a healthy dose of skepticism.

As to the original question, the 686 is built on the S&W L-Frame which is the larger of their two medium-sized frames (the next smallest is the K-Frame) while the M27 is built on the N-Frame which is their second large frame originally designed for bigbore cartridges like .44 Special, .45 ACP, .44-40, and .45 Long Colt.

The L-Frame was specifically designed for the .357 Magnum cartridge in order to remedy some of the issues that were sometimes encountered when copious amounts of full-power .357 Magnum ammunition with light bullets (less than 140 gr) were fired through K-Frame revolvers including the Models 13, 19, 65, and 66. What S&W basically did was keep the gripframe dimensions of the K-Frame the same while enlarging the frame window enough to allow a thicker forcing cone to clear the yoke. While the first L-Frames were all six-shot guns, S&W eventually figured out that the larger diameter cylinder allowed by the bigger frame window could safely contain seven shots and the 686 has been available in both six or seven shot variants for several years now.

The N-Frame, on the other hand, was more than big and beefy enough for the .357 Magnum cartridge right from the start and it's doubtful that you'll ever see an N-Frame .357 Magnum with a cracked forcing cone (they're very thick). The N-Frame does, however, have a larger gripframe and longer trigger reach and may not fit some people with smaller hands as well as a K or L-Frame revolver would. The N-Frame has an even larger frame window than the L-Frame does and while most have six-shot cylinders, the 627 and some Lew Horton limited run M27's can be found with eight-shot cylinders. The N-Frame .357's have shorter cylinders than the K and L-Frames do so while they are perfectly capable of handling just as high, if not higher, pressures, they cannot use certain long-nosed bullets like the 173gr Kieth bullet in .357 Magnum cases (though many people handload these bullets to magnum pressure in .38 Special cases for use in N-Frames with no ill-effect). While the N-Frame is probably one of the most durable .357 Magnum revolvers ever made for SA or relatively slow DA shooting, the larger, heavier cylinder does put a bit more stress on the hand, cylinder stop, and cylinder stop notches making the N-Frame a bit more prone to timing and lockup issues than the L or K-Frames if lots of hard, fast DA shooting is done though the difference will probably be negligable for most shooters.

The biggest tangible difference between a 686 and M27 for most people will be the balance of the gun. While both revovlers are very similar in weight for a given barrel length, the distribution of that weight is very different. The 686 uses a heavy, full-underlug barrel which places the balance point further in front of the shooter's hand particularly with a longer barrel while the M27 uses a tapered barrel with a half-underlug that places the balance point further back and nearer to the shooter's hand. Which one is better is really a matter of personal preference but shooters such as myself who are more accustomed to older S&W revolvers tend to prefer the balance of the M27 while shooters more accustomed to newer revolvers or those with full underlugs like the Colt Python or full-lug Ruger GP100 tend to prefer the 686. Both are excellent guns that will serve you well for decades and the only real way to determine which fits you better is to handle, and if possible shoot, both.
 
I like them both ....but model 27's are some of my all time favorite guns ...finish on a good model 27 is pure craftmanship....

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77426&d=1326326498

gun at upper left is a 686 6" ....and blued one on left is a mod 27 6"


http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78278&d=1328226262

Here is a model 27 4" nickel / and the same blued mod 27 6"...
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Truthfully ....I shoot both the model 686's and the mod 27's about the same ...in and out of a holster about the same ..weight is close...but the classic styling of the model 27 is the deal breaker to me.

Guns with the internal frame locks...are probably fine...but they're ugly ...in my opinion. There are too many good used model 27's pre-lock out there that you don't have to go with the lock.
------------------
Depends on what you want the gun to do for you .....in and out of a holster, doing tactical drills....the N frame model 27 in 4" is a spectacular gun shooting full power .357 mag loads...and I can shoot it all day long / especially in drills from 15' - 30' ...and while its ok out to about 40' ...with my old eyes, its a stretch for me to consistently hit a 7" circle at 40' with any kind of consistency in a decent time frame.

Beyond 40' ...if I were looking for a slow fire....bulls eye revolver...both the 686 and the model 27 shine in a 6". Great triggers especially in single action ...and good solid guns. In and out of a holster ...with 3 or 4 boxes of ammo ...with a 6" ...puts a little more stress on my old shoulders ...to get it up and clear the holster properly ...its still ok / but after about 3 boxes...I want that model 27 4" in my hands again.

I feel the same way about my model 19's and 66's all ( most of them in 4" - in the photo above - a pair of mod 19's in nickel, a pair of mod 66's in stainless)...and being K frames... in and out of holsters all day long is easy ....but the recoil from full power .357 mag loads in them after 4 boxes or so is enough...and I want that N frame mod 27 4" back in my hands...

I just like the model 27 more ....and it looks really cool !

If I move up to a model 29 ( N frame, .44 mag ) ...then I really like the bigger model in a 8 3/8" barrel...helps keep the heavier caliber from jumping around so much ...shooting a 4" gun in .44 mag ( even an N frame is only fun for a box, maybe 2 boxes) ...then I want that big heavy 8 3/8" barrel ..in a model 29 or even the heavier 629 ....shooting a .44 mag in a 6" all day is ok ...but it gets tiring too. I have a little arthritis in my hands and wrists...so to me, its a compromise..( model 27 4" in .357 mag all day ) or a model 29 or 629 if I really feel a need to shoot a .44 mag all day .../ but I shoot the .357 mag a whole lot more than I do the .44 mag../ I probably put 100 boxes thru my .357 mag revolvers for every 10 boxes thru my .44 mag revolvers.../ in fact I just ordered a new Freedom Arms Single Action Army in a 4 3/4" in .357 mag - Octagon barrel - and all the trimmings.. and at between 55 and 60 oz ...it ought to shoot like a .22 almost...in their large frame...
 
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@Webley wow thanks! that pretty much sums up all the info I need to differentiate between the two.

Well I shot a 619 at the range today, which I think is the same frame size as the 686, and that fit me pretty darn well. So I'll have to find a 27 or 28 to handle somewhere to see if its too big for me. The 619 was a joy to shoot, now if only the DA pull on some of my semi-autos was as nice as that DA pull was. :D
 
By and large, people who dislike the lock feel the way they do on principle rather than practical reasons. There have been a very, very few documented cases in which the lock has engaged during recoil and tied up the revolver when the owner didn't want it to, but the number of verifiable cases is small enough in number to be statistically irrelevant.

The vast majority of people who bash the lock do so because they are staunch traditionalists who just don't like the idea of change, dislike the lock for political reasons (they feel that S&W caved in to anti-gun politicians like Bill Clinton by incorporating the feature), or because they think that the lock detracts too much from the look of the gun. Unfortunately, many of the people who dislike the lock for these reasons attempt to blow the small number of documented problems completely out of proportion in order to justify their own preferences.

Unfortunately, many of the lock bashers also don't seem to be able to remain mature when they discuss the matter. Some of the more irritating lock-bashers don't seem to be able to refrain from a tirade about it any time a new S&W product is mentioned even if the discussion isn't about the lock. Likewise, many lock bashers also have stooped to the use of childish invectives like "Smith & Clinton," "Safety Wesson," or referring to the lock as the "Hillary Hole." When you see someone engage in these types of behaviors, you can pretty much be sure that they have an axe to grind and that any claims they make should be looked upon with a healthy dose of skepticism.

As to the original question, the 686 is built on the S&W L-Frame which is the larger of their two medium-sized frames (the next smallest is the K-Frame) while the M27 is built on the N-Frame which is their second large frame originally designed for bigbore cartridges like .44 Special, .45 ACP, .44-40, and .45 Long Colt.

The L-Frame was specifically designed for the .357 Magnum cartridge in order to remedy some of the issues that were sometimes encountered when copious amounts of full-power .357 Magnum ammunition with light bullets (less than 140 gr) were fired through K-Frame revolvers including the Models 13, 19, 65, and 66. What S&W basically did was keep the gripframe dimensions of the K-Frame the same while enlarging the frame window enough to allow a thicker forcing cone to clear the yoke. While the first L-Frames were all six-shot guns, S&W eventually figured out that the larger diameter cylinder allowed by the bigger frame window could safely contain seven shots and the 686 has been available in both six or seven shot variants for several years now.

The N-Frame, on the other hand, was more than big and beefy enough for the .357 Magnum cartridge right from the start and it's doubtful that you'll ever see an N-Frame .357 Magnum with a cracked forcing cone (they're very thick). The N-Frame does, however, have a larger gripframe and longer trigger reach and may not fit some people with smaller hands as well as a K or L-Frame revolver would. The N-Frame has an even larger frame window than the L-Frame does and while most have six-shot cylinders, the 627 and some Lew Horton limited run M27's can be found with eight-shot cylinders. The N-Frame .357's have shorter cylinders than the K and L-Frames do so while they are perfectly capable of handling just as high, if not higher, pressures, they cannot use certain long-nosed bullets like the 173gr Kieth bullet in .357 Magnum cases (though many people handload these bullets to magnum pressure in .38 Special cases for use in N-Frames with no ill-effect). While the N-Frame is probably one of the most durable .357 Magnum revolvers ever made for SA or relatively slow DA shooting, the larger, heavier cylinder does put a bit more stress on the hand, cylinder stop, and cylinder stop notches making the N-Frame a bit more prone to timing and lockup issues than the L or K-Frames if lots of hard, fast DA shooting is done though the difference will probably be negligable for most shooters.

The biggest tangible difference between a 686 and M27 for most people will be the balance of the gun. While both revovlers are very similar in weight for a given barrel length, the distribution of that weight is very different. The 686 uses a heavy, full-underlug barrel which places the balance point further in front of the shooter's hand particularly with a longer barrel while the M27 uses a tapered barrel with a half-underlug that places the balance point further back and nearer to the shooter's hand. Which one is better is really a matter of personal preference but shooters such as myself who are more accustomed to older S&W revolvers tend to prefer the balance of the M27 while shooters more accustomed to newer revolvers or those with full underlugs like the Colt Python or full-lug Ruger GP100 tend to prefer the 686. Both are excellent guns that will serve you well for decades and the only real way to determine which fits you better is to handle, and if possible shoot
I CAN CLOSE with a BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time to go back to schools boy,s!
 
The biggest tangible difference between a 686 and M27 for most people will be the size of the dent it puts in your wallet.
There. Fixed it for you. :)
 
@BigJimP From that picture it doesn't look like there would be much of a difference in the grip between the 686 and 27, do you feel like they have about the length between the back of the grip and the trigger? Also that's a sweet collection of revolvers!
 
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