Revolver loading

U

uncle.45

New member
Hi, Guys!
I have been loading .45acp for my 1911s for a while now, and the load I am using works fine for casual range shooting.
Recently I got a 625JM that is a great shooter.
I always come back to revolvers 'cause that's what my Dad started me on when I was five years old. (M1917)
The load I have been using is as follows---
Berry's 185gr RNFP plated bullets
5.5gr Hodgdon HP38 powder
Magtech (CBC) brass
CCI large primers
OAL is 1.177
Case mouth is .471
I have been using these in both semi-auto and revolver, but I notice some inconsistent reports and 'soft' shots with the revolver that are not obvious in the 1911. I check every 10th powder drop, and my Dillon powder measure is very consistent.
Instead of using the exact same cartridge in both guns, should I make ammo specifically for the revolver with changes to the OAL, crimp, or charge?
What I've been doing 'works', but is apparently not ideal.
I have not loaded for revolver before, so I need the advice of someone who has the experience I am lacking.
Thanks everyone!
 
The bullets may be pulling out of the cases during recoil, resulting in increased OAL, which lowers pressure in those rounds. Shoot 5 rounds, open the gun and measure the 6th, see if it has increased in length.
 
That is one possibility. This is a problem only in revolvers. In pistols, bullets in the magazine get popped on the nose when recoil pushes the gun and magazine back. But in a revolver, the cartridge case gets pushed back by recoil either by the rim or through a moon or half-moon clip. This is like an inertial bullet puller, except instead of the puller going forward and stopping suddenly on a surface, it is getting hammered from the front, with the hammer being the recoil. You may need a roll crimp with lubricated lead bullets, as they can pull pretty easily even though .45 Auto recoil in an N-frame is not that heavy.

Another possible cause is that DA revolvers, especially one that has been worked on, frequently have their hammer blow force compromised a little by the need to keep the DA pull from being excessive. Also, where there are a transfer bar and short firing pin, the firing pin's inertia is smaller than on, say, a m.1911. These factors make revolvers more sensitive to primer seating errors. If your primers are even a little bit high, you can get faulty ignition that is partial or slow and that gets the bullet started forward, but with low enough pressure that the barrel/cylinder gap to have time to bleed some extra off. So, you want your primers firmly seated. Try Federal primers if you still have an issue, as they are more sensitive and often fire properly when others are marginal.
 
Plated bullets seem to be both boon and bane.

Cheaper than jacketed, "better" than lead, they say. TO me they seem to be neither fish, nor fowl, nor good red meat.

Try the same loads with jacketed bullets. If you get different results, then its the grip of the case on the plated bullet that is the most likely cause.

Roll crimp works best in revolvers, but you need bullets that have a place for the roll to crimp into. Most bullets intended for semi autos lack that these days.

The most likely reason for "soft" feeling shots is the bullet has moved forward in the case from recoil (something unique to revolvers), lowering the pressure of the round.

Roll crimping plated bullets that do not have a crimp groove is considered to be a bad idea. The plating is thin, and can be cut through by a roll crimp. This can result in the plating coming off when fired. Not always will, but CAN.

It may turn out that the bullets you are using are simply not well suited for use in revolvers. While semi auto bullets often work just fine, sometimes, they don't. Using a bullet designed for revolvers, in a revolver is often the best way to go, for proper performance, though it can increase your overall cost, needed 2 different bullets instead of one.
 
I've shot thousands of rounds thru the 625 and 1911 guns, same loads, cast 200 gr RN bullets, I use the same load in both guns. My 625 has tighter chambers than my 1911 guns do so you may have check loaded rounds to make sure they will fit the chambers in the revolver. One of my 1911s has short throat so I had to seat a little deeper so they'll work in it. Current load is 4.5 WST with a 200 RN cast amd a Fed primer. Make sure the bullet fits tightly in the case. I've found that Remington cases are thinner than others, might not be tight enough for .451 bullets, I haven't tested this. I did buy a Lee crimp die that also sizes the case if there is a bulge at the base of the bullet and it seems to make any of the rounds work in the revolver. I wouldn't use it for Bullseye loads but for normal shooting IDPA style they shoot just fine. Cast bullets .452 to .453 dia shoot great in the revolver or 1911s. The 625 is designed for the .45 ACP cartridge and ammo that meets factory specs works fine in it. You should not have to load especial ammo for the revolver.
My 2 cents based on my experience.
 
"...should I make ammo specifically for the revolver..." Yes. The chances of 2 firearms shooting the same ammo the same way are slim.
5.5 grains of HP38 is a mid range, jacketed, bullet load. Plated bullets are not jacketed. However, that 5.5 is also dead centre of range for a 180 grain LFP, so the load is fine. (Five grains won't matter.) Max velocities are ~ 906 FPS for the 185 and 950 FPS for the 180. Earth shakers the load is not. Both bullet weights are light too.
Most likely that the revolver just doesn't like it. I'd work up a 230 grain cast or plated load.
 
IME plated bullets are touchy to load.
There's a fine line between enough flare to get the bullet started squarely in the case, and getting enough case mouth tension on the bullet to prevent set back or pull.

A Lyman M style die combined with a seating stem that fits the bullet profile are essential to good plated loads. I use little to no crimp on .45 acp, relying on bullet tension to hold it together. Works for me in 1911's and HK's and a Blackhawk revolver.

I keep my flare to an absolute minimum and hand start the bullets carefully.

I only load ammo that can be used in any gun of that caliber. There's no reason you can't make your load work in both guns.

I'm not a Dillon guy, but I thought there were aftermarket M style expanders.
 
5.5 grains of HP-38 is a light load - even with jacketed bullets - so I doubt the bullets are pulling out. Revolvers are a bit more sensitive to light loads because the chambers are typically longer and they are vented. HP-38 is a great powder in the semi-auto and I have used less than 5,5 grains in a 1911 before with good results. From a revolver I would increase the powder charge to at least 6 grains or a bit more to get the same results. In my 1911 I was using 4.8 grains with a 250 grain lead bullet with exceptional accuracy but from my revolver I had to increase the charge to 5.5 grains to get the same 250 grain bullet to the same level.
You are dealing with two very different guns and I think you will have to play with the powder charge to get the revolver working at the same level of consistency.
 
I have a 1911 Colt XSE and a 625. I have been using the Missouri Bullet Company 230 grain Soft Ball bullets. I use Federal Primers for positive ignition in the 625 which is a Power Custom Combat. I load on a 550 with Dillon Dies.
My powder measure is on another tool head, so I am not sure about my last powder. I was probably using Unique, 20/28, or American Select in a below maximum load.
I have a 5 gallon bucket of range brass, and I run it all though a Lee Bulge Buster push through die to make sure it will drop in the 625 cylinder with no tight spots from bulged brass.

Bob
 
I have been slow to respond because of the flu, but I appreciate the input guys!
It occured to me that I had some fit issues with the tight chambers in the 625, so I ran my last couple of batches through the Bulge Buster after they were loaded.
They fall in and out of the cylinder easily now, but I am wondering if maybe some bullets are being loosened by the Bulge Buster. The 'straightening' process may be leaving some rounds with less than ideal neck tension, and they leave the case too early. Thus the different report and recoil.
I will make a small batch as soon as I feel better.
I am going to size and deprime, then make a pass through the Bulge Buster,
followed by priming, charging, etc..
Using the Bulge Buster before loading will hopefully give me the fit I need,while maintaining the case neck tension consistently from case to case.
What do you think?
 
The Lee FCD die is what you want to use if you need to post size loaded rounds. No doubt the bulge buster put a real squeeze on those bullets and loosened up the case mouth tension.
Yup, use the bulge buster before charging and seating.

You fit issues may have been some tilted bullets, very easy to do in .45 acp.
 
I shoot essentially the same loads in both. The pressure level is the same.

I do some things different.

With semi-autos, I use ACP cases. Bullets are held in place by neck tension only and crimp are only to iron out the crimp to insure smooth chambering. No deep crimping which may compromise chambering.

With the revolver, I use .45 AR cases. Loading process is much the same except I crimp the bullets with a Lee factory crimp die. This tends to prevent bullet pull in the cylinder.

Actually, I've found the revolver likes 255 grain 45 Colt bullets, with full crimps over a dose of Power Pistol.

The semi-sutos like a 'hardball' equivalent load.

Every one is happy.

Regarding the bulge buster. I would not use that AFTER the seating process. Bullets should be held by neck tension.
 
Success Twice!

I got to the range for testing today.
I loaded 50 rounds at 5.5gr and 50 at 5.7gr in boxes for the 1911.
I also 'mooned' 48 rounds of each for the 625.
All ammo was loaded after sizing/depriming and a pass thru the Lee Bulge Buster.
Since the chambers in the 625 are tighter than my Dillon case gage I checked them all with it, and they ALL fit freely.
Every round fired matching the other rounds of that load.
There were no more variations in report or recoil.
They seemed to hit the target more consistently, too!
When I tried the 5.7gr loads, they shot great, and fired CLEAN!! The lighter loads have always been kind of dirty.
A second success!
Thanks for the input! You guys always help me figure out which way to go to get the results I need.
 
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