I am curious, what is your opinion of the "poor man's trigger job" as decribed here:
http://www.gunblast.com/Poorboy.htm
Thanks in advance for your help.
TX
http://www.gunblast.com/Poorboy.htm
Thanks in advance for your help.
TX
Revolver experts, your advice
- Thread starter TX_RGR
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
It's called, variously, bumping or boosting the trigger.
It works.
As for the pulling the spring leg off the post, beats me, S&W revolvers aren't set up like that.
It works.
As for the pulling the spring leg off the post, beats me, S&W revolvers aren't set up like that.
RevolverLover
New member
My trigger jobs consist of sending many rounds down range. 
kingudaroad
New member
Not an expert , but I did this to my super blackhawk.Have had no problems.
Sir William
New member
Many CAS shooters have done this. I consider it an unfair and illegal modification that is not in the spirit of the game. It works. If you have Wolff springs, don't bother with it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"...is a good way to tear up a perfectly good gun if you don't know what you are doing."
Welcome to about 99.9% of what you can do with a handgun
Welcome to about 99.9% of what you can do with a handgun
My advice for S&W revolvers:
exchange the 18 lbs rebound spring with a 15 lbs or perhaps 14 lbs spring. Weaken the mainspring *slightly* by filing off the sides (left/right, NOT front/rear) of the flat mainspring. Adjust the strain screw by turning it out half turns. Once the ammo with the hardest primers doesn't go off anymore turn it back in half a turn. Fix it with locktite or something similar and you're done.
Bad ideas:
1. "Smoothing" internal parts? Good idea. If done by a competent gunsmith. I am no competent gunsmith and internal parts are case hardened. Once you're through the hardened exterior the parts will wear down very fast.
2. Filing off the strain screw. The good point is the strain screw isn't intended to be "adjusted". It could come loose. So one could file it off somewhat to avoid that problem. Maybe an option in the 70s, but nowadays the screw isn't flat at the contact area to the spring but round. This works better and by filing off the screw you're destroying that advantage. I have once filed off my screw and ended with a replacement strain screw.
3. The mainspring's sides are somewhat rude. Just flaten it with a file. Don't overdo it. If the spring get's too hot (grinding with the wrong tools..) it will be destroyed. My 1961 M14-1 has the best mainspring, no work needed on that. My 1971 M15-3 has a worse mainspring with uneven sides. Flatened that one.
4. Mainspring and rebound spring work together. If you weaken the rebound spring and leave the mainspring as it is you could end up with too slow or no trigger reset and a non-functional gun.
Even turning out the strain screw is considered amateurish work. But sometimes you have to do that. For instance my M15-3 has very heavy da trigger without turning the screw out. I can go out 2 turns and it will ignite the hardest primers. So new strain screw is a 3/4 turn longer than that of my M14-1 btw.
In the end your home trigger job can offer a slightly better da trigger. A competent gunsmith can do much more. Very good da trigger and still very reliable. If you want a totally reliable gun just don't do any trigger job on it.
exchange the 18 lbs rebound spring with a 15 lbs or perhaps 14 lbs spring. Weaken the mainspring *slightly* by filing off the sides (left/right, NOT front/rear) of the flat mainspring. Adjust the strain screw by turning it out half turns. Once the ammo with the hardest primers doesn't go off anymore turn it back in half a turn. Fix it with locktite or something similar and you're done.
Bad ideas:
1. "Smoothing" internal parts? Good idea. If done by a competent gunsmith. I am no competent gunsmith and internal parts are case hardened. Once you're through the hardened exterior the parts will wear down very fast.
2. Filing off the strain screw. The good point is the strain screw isn't intended to be "adjusted". It could come loose. So one could file it off somewhat to avoid that problem. Maybe an option in the 70s, but nowadays the screw isn't flat at the contact area to the spring but round. This works better and by filing off the screw you're destroying that advantage. I have once filed off my screw and ended with a replacement strain screw.
3. The mainspring's sides are somewhat rude. Just flaten it with a file. Don't overdo it. If the spring get's too hot (grinding with the wrong tools..) it will be destroyed. My 1961 M14-1 has the best mainspring, no work needed on that. My 1971 M15-3 has a worse mainspring with uneven sides. Flatened that one.
4. Mainspring and rebound spring work together. If you weaken the rebound spring and leave the mainspring as it is you could end up with too slow or no trigger reset and a non-functional gun.
Even turning out the strain screw is considered amateurish work. But sometimes you have to do that. For instance my M15-3 has very heavy da trigger without turning the screw out. I can go out 2 turns and it will ignite the hardest primers. So new strain screw is a 3/4 turn longer than that of my M14-1 btw.
In the end your home trigger job can offer a slightly better da trigger. A competent gunsmith can do much more. Very good da trigger and still very reliable. If you want a totally reliable gun just don't do any trigger job on it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Weaken the mainspring *slightly* by filing off the sides (left/right, NOT front/rear) of the flat mainspring. Adjust the strain screw by turning it out half turns."
Hum...
Let's look at these...
"Weaking the mainspring by filing off the sides."
BAD idea.
"Adjust the strain screw by turning it out half turns"
BAD idea, ESPECIALLY on any gun that is to be used as a defensive gun.
Cutting the spring or turning out the screw are old methods of adjusting the pull weight on S&W revolvers. However, they're not without their problems.
Filing the sides on a mainspring makes it more prone to fracturing. While not a common happening on springs so altered, it's a possibility.
Turing the screw out is a bad idea because if it's not seated fully it is MUCH more prone to backing out further, very possibly to the point of rendering the gun unusable due to main spring knuckling.
Filing the strain screw is another old adjustment technique, and frankly, it's a much better technique than leaving the screw to float.
My rule of thumb is that the strain screw is ALWAYS torqued tight against the frame.
Both of these scenaios can be prevented by installing, along with the lighter rebound slide spring, a reduced power mainspring from Wolff. I have these springs in almost all of my S&W revolvers, and the enhancements are greatly worth the $20.
If installing these springs in a defensive handgun, you MUST thoroughly test the gun with your carry ammo before relying on it.
Often, though, simply replacing the rebound slide spring, but leaving the stock mainspring in place, gives a dramatic improvement in trigger pull.
As for smoothing internal parts, some parts, such as the sides of the rebound slide, the trigger, and the hammer can be smoothed quite nicely without having to worry about doing damage by cutting throug the case hardening.
Cutting through the case hardening does become an issue if you decide to attempt smoothing the sear and sear seat. If done incorrectly, the gun can become dangerous.
"4. Mainspring and rebound spring work together. If you weaken the rebound spring and leave the mainspring as it is you could end up with too slow or no trigger reset and a non-functional gun."
Actually, that's not really the case at all. The rebound slide's operation is virtually isolated from the function of the main spring. Poor trigger return when installing a lighter rebound slide spring is almost always due to binding/dragging in the rebound slide or trigger. That's when polishing of the internal parts (trigger and rebound slide flats) is called for, as is possibly a trigger boss bearing (available from Brownell's).
My Model 28 6" exhibited very poor trigger reset with the 14 pound spring. An hour's worth of polishing on the trigger flats and rebound slide and a stainless steel boss bearing cured that problem 100%.
Doing a basic action job on a Smith & Wesson revolver is not at all difficult. I've done nearly 100 (my own and those belonging to friends). The only guidance I solicited was a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on the S&W revolver.
If you take a little care, pay attention to the instructions in the book, and are willing to go SLOWLY while resisting the urge to grind the hell out of the metal, you'll end up with a very credible action job and a much better action on your revolver.
Hum...
Let's look at these...
"Weaking the mainspring by filing off the sides."
BAD idea.
"Adjust the strain screw by turning it out half turns"
BAD idea, ESPECIALLY on any gun that is to be used as a defensive gun.
Cutting the spring or turning out the screw are old methods of adjusting the pull weight on S&W revolvers. However, they're not without their problems.
Filing the sides on a mainspring makes it more prone to fracturing. While not a common happening on springs so altered, it's a possibility.
Turing the screw out is a bad idea because if it's not seated fully it is MUCH more prone to backing out further, very possibly to the point of rendering the gun unusable due to main spring knuckling.
Filing the strain screw is another old adjustment technique, and frankly, it's a much better technique than leaving the screw to float.
My rule of thumb is that the strain screw is ALWAYS torqued tight against the frame.
Both of these scenaios can be prevented by installing, along with the lighter rebound slide spring, a reduced power mainspring from Wolff. I have these springs in almost all of my S&W revolvers, and the enhancements are greatly worth the $20.
If installing these springs in a defensive handgun, you MUST thoroughly test the gun with your carry ammo before relying on it.
Often, though, simply replacing the rebound slide spring, but leaving the stock mainspring in place, gives a dramatic improvement in trigger pull.
As for smoothing internal parts, some parts, such as the sides of the rebound slide, the trigger, and the hammer can be smoothed quite nicely without having to worry about doing damage by cutting throug the case hardening.
Cutting through the case hardening does become an issue if you decide to attempt smoothing the sear and sear seat. If done incorrectly, the gun can become dangerous.
"4. Mainspring and rebound spring work together. If you weaken the rebound spring and leave the mainspring as it is you could end up with too slow or no trigger reset and a non-functional gun."
Actually, that's not really the case at all. The rebound slide's operation is virtually isolated from the function of the main spring. Poor trigger return when installing a lighter rebound slide spring is almost always due to binding/dragging in the rebound slide or trigger. That's when polishing of the internal parts (trigger and rebound slide flats) is called for, as is possibly a trigger boss bearing (available from Brownell's).
My Model 28 6" exhibited very poor trigger reset with the 14 pound spring. An hour's worth of polishing on the trigger flats and rebound slide and a stainless steel boss bearing cured that problem 100%.
Doing a basic action job on a Smith & Wesson revolver is not at all difficult. I've done nearly 100 (my own and those belonging to friends). The only guidance I solicited was a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on the S&W revolver.
If you take a little care, pay attention to the instructions in the book, and are willing to go SLOWLY while resisting the urge to grind the hell out of the metal, you'll end up with a very credible action job and a much better action on your revolver.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I've worked on all of my carry guns. I trust my abilities with a Smith & Wesson revolver more than any gunsmith I've come across, at least locally. I must be doing something right, as all of my S&Ws are 100% reliable with all ammo I've tested them with.
For Smith and Wesson revolvers:
1. Never, ever attempt to stone or polish the sear, sear nose, hammer nose, or full cock notch. You'll destroy the heat treatment. Don't ask me how I know.
2. To reduce the trigger pull, and smooth it out, first disassemble. Now, polish (use crocus cloth) the bottom and back side only of the rebound slide. Chuck a Q-tip into a 3/8" VSR drill, dip it in oil and rub it with JB compound. Now, polish the INSIDE of the rebound slide, running the drill at slow speed. Flush out with solvent, clean with Hoppe's.
Now, replace the rebound slide spring with a reduced power spring (Wolff's are the best, by far) available from Brownell's. For an added smoothness treatment, chuck the spring itself into the drill, and run at slow speed while holding a patch around it with oil and JB compound. Don't go too fast--and DEFINITELY don't build up any heat.
Replace the mainspring with a Power Custom mainspring (also available from Brownell's), and use an unaltered strain screw.
3. When reassembling, place a drop of good oil under the rebound slide, one drop into the rebound slide, a drop on the hammer and trigger boss, and one drop on the top of the rebound slide, where the shelf is that moves the hammer out of engagement.
To really go the extra mile, you can also polish the sides of the firing pin block.
Again, do not file, stone or polish ANY sear contact surfaces--especially the notch.
1. Never, ever attempt to stone or polish the sear, sear nose, hammer nose, or full cock notch. You'll destroy the heat treatment. Don't ask me how I know.
2. To reduce the trigger pull, and smooth it out, first disassemble. Now, polish (use crocus cloth) the bottom and back side only of the rebound slide. Chuck a Q-tip into a 3/8" VSR drill, dip it in oil and rub it with JB compound. Now, polish the INSIDE of the rebound slide, running the drill at slow speed. Flush out with solvent, clean with Hoppe's.
Now, replace the rebound slide spring with a reduced power spring (Wolff's are the best, by far) available from Brownell's. For an added smoothness treatment, chuck the spring itself into the drill, and run at slow speed while holding a patch around it with oil and JB compound. Don't go too fast--and DEFINITELY don't build up any heat.
Replace the mainspring with a Power Custom mainspring (also available from Brownell's), and use an unaltered strain screw.
3. When reassembling, place a drop of good oil under the rebound slide, one drop into the rebound slide, a drop on the hammer and trigger boss, and one drop on the top of the rebound slide, where the shelf is that moves the hammer out of engagement.
To really go the extra mile, you can also polish the sides of the firing pin block.
Again, do not file, stone or polish ANY sear contact surfaces--especially the notch.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I didn't say it wasn't done, Majic.
I did say that it was a BAD idea.
It weakens the spring and makes it much more prone to fracturing.
It's also a rather hit and miss prospect. I did this with one of my guns some years ago, using the old mainspring, which I had replaced with a Wolff spring.
I reduced the width of the spring by about 1/4, in incremental stages, using a low-speed water wheel grinder. Even with that much of the spring removed, the trigger pull still wasn't as good as it was with the Wolff spring. And there's absolutely no way that I would carry a gun with that spring in it.
I did say that it was a BAD idea.
It weakens the spring and makes it much more prone to fracturing.
It's also a rather hit and miss prospect. I did this with one of my guns some years ago, using the old mainspring, which I had replaced with a Wolff spring.
I reduced the width of the spring by about 1/4, in incremental stages, using a low-speed water wheel grinder. Even with that much of the spring removed, the trigger pull still wasn't as good as it was with the Wolff spring. And there's absolutely no way that I would carry a gun with that spring in it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"1. Never, ever attempt to stone or polish the sear, sear nose, hammer nose, or full cock notch. You'll destroy the heat treatment. Don't ask me how I know."
Well...
I'd say never try to do any of those WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE DOING.
I've stoned more than my fair share of those parts, and have never cut through the heat treatment.
Why?
Because I recognize that the heat treating is VERY thin, so if you do anything other than use a very fine, hard stone, you're going to create problems.
Once again, if you feel the need to learn how to do this, get yourself a copy of the Kuhnhausen book.
Well...
I'd say never try to do any of those WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE DOING.
I've stoned more than my fair share of those parts, and have never cut through the heat treatment.
Why?
Because I recognize that the heat treating is VERY thin, so if you do anything other than use a very fine, hard stone, you're going to create problems.
Once again, if you feel the need to learn how to do this, get yourself a copy of the Kuhnhausen book.