Revolver Durability

S

Smith and Wesson

New member
This has probably been covered here before, but I've been doing some research about revolvers, and I hear people say that you can neglect a revolver more than a semi-auto before a jam, failure to fire, etc., but they also say you can abuse semi-auto more than a revolver before a jam. So I was wondering if exposed to dirt, mud, sand, etc. is revolver really more likely to jam over a semi-auto? If so, why?
 
"Revolver" and "Semi-auto" are types of firearms.

Different models of revolvers are better than others and different semi-autos are better than others.

So you can't get a good comparison with such broad classifications.

If we compare a Ruger stainless steel Single Action Blackhawk to a Jennings 25 auto the revolver is without a doubt more reliable.

If we compare a Glock 17 to an RG M-38 the Semi-auto is clearly more reliable.

Where it gets interesting is to compare the Stainless SA Ruger to the Glock

You’d better have a lot of time and a lot of ammo to come up with a clear winner in that comparison.
 
Don't trust either a semi-auto or a revolver with your life unless you personally know the weapon has been maintained. When you say auto, you include classic designs such as the Luger, which are machined to very exacting tolerances and they don't handle dirt and debris well. An auto such as the 1911 left loose to military standards is one of the designs most tolerant to external dust and debris in existence. Even better, the 1911 can be field stripped and put back in working order by a person without a gunsmithing background. If the 1911 has to be completely broken down it only has 46 parts, and it can be done without tools. Plenty of autos out there require specialized knowledge and the tools of a well equipped shop.

Dust and wet mud will eat up a finely fitted revolver, and if anything beyond a basic cleaning is required tools and knowledge are essential. Even the toughest designs like the Ruger single actions will rattle apart, if the screws aren't occasionally tightened. Some designs work better than others under trying conditions, and its more a matter of choosing a high quality design with open tolerances rather than simply revolver versus automatic, but anyone who has the idea that they want to pick a handgun that is tough enough that they don't need to learn how to maintain it is asking for a failure at the worst possible moment.

To answer your question another way, if I wanted something that I could drop in the wet mud, check the bore, and give it a quick wipe, and expect it to function, I would choose a 1911. If I wanted a gun that I could just shoot as many rounds as possible without a cleaning, I would choose a heavyweight .357 revolver and shoot it with light .38s. Other choices may well exist, but I can only tell you what I know from my limited knowledge base.
 
Well, some years ago I put over 4,000 rounds of lead reloads through my Model 19 S&W without cleaning it, and it never choked once.

If I try to go more than 300 to 400 rounds through my Springfield Milspec 1911, it chokes.

Sample of two...
 
"Neglect" ????? If a person "neglects" their handgun and it malfunctions . . . well, sort of like never changing the oil in a car . . . you "break down" . . . it's on you. I have shot revolvers for 50 + years and can honestly say that I have never had a "jam" - I have had "jams" with cap and ball revolvers due to cap fragments but that's a whole different ball game. I have and shoot both revolver and semi-autos - and CCW both at times.

Any "jams" I've ever had with a semi-auto have beed due to the ammo, not the hand gun - and my training has taught me how to quickly clear the round and move on or clear, drop the magazine and quickly replace and rack a round in.

As far as exposure to dirt, sand, etc. - if I am depending on that handgun, I'm going to do everything I can in my power to keep it from being exposed to such things. That's one resin for a holster. I know this doesn't really answer your question but I would say that either a semi or a revolver could have "issues" if exposed to such things. All goes back to "you take care of your weapon and it will take care of you". . . . regardless of the style
 
With DA Revolvers you need to keep the area between the ejector star and the cylinder clear of debris. If that area gets junk in it the star can't retract all the way and that makes the overall length of the cylinder "too long" and can cause the rotation to be tight or even jam up. Carrying a small brush in your pocket when shooting a DA revolver is a good idea. If you simply brush out that area now and then (Maybe every 300-500 rounds) or after you take a "digger" in the dirt, the revolver keeps working and seems to do so for a very long time.
The Ruger GP100 may be the best DA revolver ever made. I am a tried and true S&W fan and I have used them now for nearly 50 years but I am also a gunsmith and I know the inner workings of these guns. From a standpoint of design I doubt the Ruger will ever fail if you keep the ejector star clean.

I also am a 1911 fan, but in all honesty I have so say the Ruger will out perform the 1911 in reliability over time in all likelihood.

A GP100 VS A Glock?

Well after about 500,000 rounds, and as many years as it takes you to earn enough money to buy ½ million rounds of ammo for each and shoot it all up you can tell us all which one wins.(Unless that’s not enough ammo)
I think it’s safe to say neither one will fail you anytime soon.
If I were to choose for myself I would take the Ruger just because I handload and the 357 magnum (and 38 special) is a more versatile way to go then the 9mm.
 
Depends on the make and model. I had a Colt Python, have had a Colt Trooper for years, compared to the Trooper the Python was so closely machined and fitted that 50 rounds of 148 WCs over 2.7 grains of Bullseye would bind it up, while the Trooper would keep on going. My Colt Mark IV locked up on me a few years ago, I had to disassemble it practically down to the bare frame to clean out years of accumulated residue in the trigger mechanism. Hence I think the biggest problem with both mechanisms is accumulated power residue allowed to cake on hard.
Durability-the advantage of the Browning type design is that the barrel is easily replaced. Ed McGivern had pictures of one hole machine rest groups of of 1920 vintage S&W K-22s with over 200,000 rounds through them. The Old Rule-which still applies-is that a steady diet of hot burning magnum loads is harder on a handgun than a steady diet of light target loads.
I don't believe in abusing firearms unless it is a life or death situation.
 
I think it would depend on how one uses the revolver.

Lets talk about ICORE (revolver) matches. ICORE requires a lot of shooting and a lot of reloading (charging the cylinder, not reloading ammo).

To function revolvers can last a long time, thousands of rounds,

But:

Smooth extraction of spent cases and slick reloading the revolver suffers. The cylinder gets grimy causing spent cases to fail to fall freely from the cylinder and new rounds to fall smoothly into the cylinder under their own weight without having to push them fully into the cylinder, both of which take time.

Reloading speed is critical in ICORE, a few extra seconds reloading could make the difference between the top or bottom of the leader board.

I found it relatively simple to swab the cylinders between stages, preventing built up inside the chambers. I want my empties to fall from the cylinder under their own weight I'll I reach for another speedloader.

Other then that revolvers don't seem to care.

Glocks and 1911s were mentioned to compare with revolvers. I cant say much about Glocks, I don't like them because I cant shoot cast bullets in them. I also don't like the grip, but I haven't shot them enough to rate them on reliability.

As to the 1911, I do have quite a bit of experience with them, in some pretty extreme conditions since firing expert the first time I fired one in AIT in 1966. This is the USGI 1911a1. I'm talking about crawling around on my hands and knees in rice paddy silt, while the pistol was in my hand and firing it while covered with crap you wouldn't believe. Sometimes giving it a shake knocking the big chunks off, sometimes not. Never had one fail me.

Then again in extreme arctic conditions. I've had them sweat then freeze, firing the first round knocks everything loose and it functions.

The same cant be said for tricked out 1911's. Keep them simple and loose the they require very little cleaning.

Having said that, like the revolver I want to the empty mag to fall freely under its own weight, which means care must be made to keep the magazine somewhat free of mud and ice. If I find a magazine that one fall under its own empty weight from the gun, I trash it.

With both autos and revolvers, the type of gun makes a difference. I shoot two 22 semis. One is a Ruger 22/45, the other is a High Standard Victor. The Victor is more accurate, but requires a lot of cleaning and oil to function, The Ruger doesn't seem to care.

It never hurts to keep a gun clean and oiled. But if you can't do that understand there is a big difference between service revolvers/autos and comp guns.
 
Given reasonable care a revolver is probably slightly more reliable. Keep it clean and use good ammo and you are good for the 1st cylinder. When it comes time to reload then all bets are off.

A big reason semi's have dominated in the military for the last 100 years is their ability to handle abuse much better. Revolvers are far more complex and have far more parts with closer tolerances than semi's. It takes very little dirt, sand etc in the right place to make a revolver inoperable. You can do the same to a semi too, but the looser tolerences mean dirt etc. can fall out and semi's can be quickly taken apart for a fast cleaning or to clear a jam with no tools. Once a revolver locks up you need a gunsmith to correct the problem.

The other big problem with revolvers is that lots of the moving parts are external to the gun. It doesn't take much to damage a cylinder if a gun is dropped. Most of the moving parts on a semi are enclosed and better protected from abuse and dirt. The newer striker fired guns are especially good at this. Other than the trigger there are no moving parts that are not enclosed and protected.

Being specific to the guns in question, a Glock is the one most likely to keep working after taking the most abuse, followed closely by a well made 1911. The problem with 1911's is that there are so many being made. Some are good, others not so much. The GP-100 is a modern revolver design and probably the one exception with revolvers. Other than concerns with a damaged cylinder from being dropped it is as reliable as a revolver can be made. The 686 might be the most accurate, but has the most that can go wrong if used hard.
 
Revolver operation is simple but the mechanism is not that simple. You can have problems with either semi autos or revolvers but in my experience you are more likely to have a problem with a semi auto (Probably ammo related) and will be able to clear it. You probably wont have a problem with a revolver but if you do your probably dead in the water as revolver problems are harder/time consuming to correct. One thing revolvers will always do better is suck up anything that resembles ammo where semi auto's need good ammo. Of course you always want to use good ammo but a revolver will handle any shape or power level of ammo you might come up with.

Thanks
Mike
 
I recall George Nonte writing that his first DA revolver was an H&R, he said he soon found its hand was not up to sustained DA shooting. IMHO the Browning designs-M1911, Browning HP, Tokarev-are the best far as field stripping and ease of field maintenance go, the Luger -?
For revolvers we should make a distinction between pre-and post WWII designs. Postwar designs such as the Rugers and Colt Mark III/Dan Wessons (designed by the same man) seems to me more rugged that their pre-war Colt & S&W counterparts, though the target shooters of that era would probably dispute that.
 
This has probably been covered here before, but I've been doing some research about revolvers, and I hear people say that you can neglect a revolver more than a semi-auto before a jam, failure to fire, etc., but they also say you can abuse semi-auto more than a revolver before a jam. So I was wondering if exposed to dirt, mud, sand, etc. is revolver really more likely to jam over a semi-auto? If so, why?
Click to expand...

One issue is something called breech friction. In time, breech friction will jam up every automatic/semi automatic mechanism. At some fouling point in the future, the amount of wax, lube, caked powder residue, will create so much friction in an automatic mechanism that it won’t be able to extract or feed.

Revolvers get dirty too, but because they are manually operated, you can rotate the cylinder by hand, thumb the hammer back, and you can get a very dirty revolver to function. Years ago I read the library’s collection of 1920’s + gun magazines, and this was a major reason the Colt SAA was so beloved out West, the thing could be very dirty, break parts, but as long as you could rotate the cylinder and thumb the hammer back, it would go bang.

Anyone trying to find the fouling limits of a revolver or a pistol may find it at an inopportune time. Always keep one’s weapon clean and lubricated.
 
wait a minute!

I had a RG M38 w/4" in 38 Special, and while I admit it spit lead so bad you really had to be behind the gun, it fired every time, with fine accuracy, and I wore it as a work gun.




"work gun": one which one expects to defend one's life with
 
Ive found over the years that the autos might need a clearance drill here and there, usually ammo related (and mostly purposely induced, so you could practice clearance drills), but they always were quickly put back in action with a TRB and didnt skip a beat.

Anytime I had a revolver lock up, it was generally DRT until it could be figured out and fixed. There were no "quick fixes".

If you prep the revolvers and make sure the ejector rod is locked in place, the cylinder retaining screw is locked in, make sure you have proper ammo with a proper crimp so you wont suffer lock up due to bullets jumping the crimp, have a proper gap at the cylinder, so fouling doesnt cause it to bind, practice your reloads properly so you dont have binding due to dumping crud under the extractor, you shouldnt have any troubles. :)
 
Autos are dependent on their magazines. I had problems with my Colt Mk IV using some scavenged GI magazines, one I found could not hold more than 5 rounds, another was enough out of spec that while it could be inserted it had to be pulled out. The ejector on my 6" S&W M-28 has a tendency to back out.
Getting back to durability, which was the OP's original question, depends on the make and model and production vintage. I have seen some messages regarding soft parts in some Uberti SAAs.
 
"You shoot a gun; you clean a gun."
-- My Father

On camping trips, I've shot revolvers over the course of several days, to the point where they got too gummed up to rotate the cylinder. I've done it a couple times - before I had the good sense to start packing my cleaning kit :p

These days, I always clean my guns long before the grime becomes a function issue. And . . . I don't camp any more ;)
 
"You shoot a gun; you clean a gun."
-- My Father
Click to expand...
We must be brothers. :)


And . . . I don't camp any more
Click to expand...
I still camp and kayak/canoe, and I always just have the gun I normally wear along. I generally dont shoot them when I do, but I have gone into muddy rivers and creeks a couple of times while carrying a 1911, and Im pretty sure I wouldnt want to do it with a revolver.

The 1911 I just stripped and rinsed out later in a clear side stream (it left the clear water muddy for awhile too :eek:) and put it back together and it was fine. I tore it down and cleaned it good when I got home.

I dont know that a revolver, especially a DA revolver, would be as easy to deal with, or fair as well.
 
I've had trouble with revolvers and autos. The only ones that have never failed to function for me have been Ruger revolvers (DA & SA) and H&K autos (USP's, HK45).
 
A friend only got 150,000 wadcutters through his PPC gun before the barrel was worn nearly smooth about 1/3 of the way down.
 
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