micromontenegro
New member
Anyone can tell anything from this lousy picture? It is the only one I have. 
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Revo ID- Now with decent pics
- Thread starter micromontenegro
- Start date
micromontenegro
New member
Thanks a lot! I'll hopefully get to see it in person later, and post better pics.
Jim Watson
New member
I believe it to be a Smith & Wesson Perfected Model .38 S&W that has been savagely mutilated by sawing off the barrel and the hammer spur.
micromontenegro
New member
That was exactly my thoughts. Now I have it at hand, and I am quite sure it is a copy of the Perfected without the cylinder release. I had never seen the like of it- but I am a top break doofus. Will post better pics in a minute,
PS: There`s a big W on the right hand sideplate.
PS: There`s a big W on the right hand sideplate.
micromontenegro
New member
Well, decent is a misnomer. My camera gave up the ghost, but these cell phone pics are better than the previous one.
By all means, please do speak your minds. I know this is a POS-I just would like to know what it is
38 SW, five shots, numbers on the butt and on cylinder (508684 on cylinder and 78902 on butt), big W on right sideplate, and nothing else I can see now- xcept for caliber marking. Thanks in advance!
By all means, please do speak your minds. I know this is a POS-I just would like to know what it is
38 SW, five shots, numbers on the butt and on cylinder (508684 on cylinder and 78902 on butt), big W on right sideplate, and nothing else I can see now- xcept for caliber marking. Thanks in advance!
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micromontenegro
New member
PS: This thing is DAO, unless something is very wrong with it- and I can't get the sideplate off. Look at the pictures and you will see why.
Jim Watson
New member
I think it is a real Perfected. There is a rare variant without the side latch and you have found one. Is the serial number near 52,000? That is where Flayderman says they show up.
If I were making a DAO, I would cut the hammer spur clear off. I suspect it was dropped and broke the hammer and sear.
But why would you stake the side plate screws?
Barrel is sawn off, there is no sign of a Perfected that short.
If I were making a DAO, I would cut the hammer spur clear off. I suspect it was dropped and broke the hammer and sear.
But why would you stake the side plate screws?
Barrel is sawn off, there is no sign of a Perfected that short.
micromontenegro
New member
Looking with a loupe, serial number seems to be 50902. But it is very hard to make out.
Crossing fingers!
Crossing fingers!
micromontenegro
New member
I am still trying to get the stocks screw off- but I frame grips superimposed seem to be a perfect fit.
micromontenegro
New member
Underneath the cylinder latch, I can see clearly a 50684. After seeing that, the butt serial also seems to be the same. 
I think it's an S&W too. I had one in .32 S&W, but I think the hammer was enclosed, not sure. Check Gunbroker for old S&W revolvers; you'll probably see a few like it.
Edit: Here's a similar one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=330909307
Edit: Here's a similar one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=330909307
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Winchester_73
New member
It was clearly a S&W, the logo is still partly there, and as others have said, and there was a rare variant "perfected" that did not have the side latch. Even in the first photo, it appeared to be a S&W, although it was hard to tell for sure. The cylinder notches are S&W, the latch is S&W, the contour of the barrel rib is S&W, the trigger, the trigger guard, the grip shape, the type of automatic extractor, I mean, worn or not, its definitely a S&W. Even the caliber marking on the barrel is in the correct place.
Did anyone notice how the gun has has an exact S&W side plate? A copy could be that good? Well I've yet to see one.
The cylinder could be from a 38 DA or a 38 new departure, as this model SN did not run that high.
H&Rs do not have those lines.
This kind of stuff is why I don't want to be told what the best revolver is of all time. Know math 101 before you attempt trigonometry.
Did anyone notice how the gun has has an exact S&W side plate? A copy could be that good? Well I've yet to see one.
The cylinder could be from a 38 DA or a 38 new departure, as this model SN did not run that high.
H&Rs do not have those lines.
This kind of stuff is why I don't want to be told what the best revolver is of all time. Know math 101 before you attempt trigonometry.
micromontenegro
New member
I guess you now know how it went from the first pic to my hands,
I guessed that any expercienced person would catch the typo. But...
Why? Is this a candidate in your book?
I am a PhD candidate where I sit. But far beyond Math or revolevrs, I learned some manners along the way. Not everybody shares that privilege.
IMHO, Jim Watson has hit it. The gun is an S&W Perfected Model without the side thumb latch. The only known serial number for that rare gun is 52108, per Neal and Jinks. It was not intended to be DAO; the hammer spur is broken or ground off.
The total production for the Perfected Model was only 59,400, from 1909 to 1920. Only a handful were made without the side latch. Neal and Jinks speculate that they might have been made during WWI when shortcuts were taken with other production so as to increase production of the Model 1917.
I have no idea what such a gun would be worth, but unfortunately the condition of that one reduces the value by a lot. Still, an advanced S&W collector might like to have it even in that condition if the price were right.
The history of that revolver is a bit obscure, since it is a top break yet has the center lock and thumb latch of the hand ejector models. One story is that there was a report of a police officer who was killed when a criminal grabbed the top latch of his break top revolver and broke it open, making the gun useless. Supposedly, S&W decided to prevent that from happening again and the Perfected came into being.
Doubt is cast on the story because, contrary to one gunzine story, the Perfected was not a transition model between the top breaks and the hand ejectors. S&W had been making hand ejector models for 15 years before the Perfected was produced. Could it have been an attempt to answer those who thought the hand ejector was too slow to eject empty cases? Maybe. I doubt at this stage we will ever know.
P.S. Neal and Jinks list the Perfected as being available with barrels of 3 1/4". 4", 5" and 6". It would be reasoable to think that any of the standard barrel lengths might be put on that variation as well. I do not have a Perfected, but again it seems reasonable that the barrels might have been regular .38 DA Fourth Model barrels, perhaps with some minor modifications.
Jim
The total production for the Perfected Model was only 59,400, from 1909 to 1920. Only a handful were made without the side latch. Neal and Jinks speculate that they might have been made during WWI when shortcuts were taken with other production so as to increase production of the Model 1917.
I have no idea what such a gun would be worth, but unfortunately the condition of that one reduces the value by a lot. Still, an advanced S&W collector might like to have it even in that condition if the price were right.
The history of that revolver is a bit obscure, since it is a top break yet has the center lock and thumb latch of the hand ejector models. One story is that there was a report of a police officer who was killed when a criminal grabbed the top latch of his break top revolver and broke it open, making the gun useless. Supposedly, S&W decided to prevent that from happening again and the Perfected came into being.
Doubt is cast on the story because, contrary to one gunzine story, the Perfected was not a transition model between the top breaks and the hand ejectors. S&W had been making hand ejector models for 15 years before the Perfected was produced. Could it have been an attempt to answer those who thought the hand ejector was too slow to eject empty cases? Maybe. I doubt at this stage we will ever know.
P.S. Neal and Jinks list the Perfected as being available with barrels of 3 1/4". 4", 5" and 6". It would be reasoable to think that any of the standard barrel lengths might be put on that variation as well. I do not have a Perfected, but again it seems reasonable that the barrels might have been regular .38 DA Fourth Model barrels, perhaps with some minor modifications.
Jim
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Winchester_73
New member
Experience has nothing to do with it, I would assume you would be sure to proofread your post, so I took it verbatim. Judging by the condition, the gun being mismatched was feasible IMO.
No, not at all. My point was that if someone cannot identify the gun, when its borderline obvious, then IMO, that person cannot discuss the best revolver of all time. In other words, unless you know a ton about revolvers, I don't think its appropriate to put one revolver ahead of the other. It comes off as a guess, or a pompous assumption instead of a reasonable theory or opinion.
A PHD in what? Its far beyond math? That's hard to believe, because math is endless, and math can be very complicated and difficult. Math can be as hard as you want it to be. A PHD in ____ does not mean someone understands firearms. Furthermore, a degree often (not always) indicates ambition and diligence more so than actual intelligence. I'm not saying that you're stupid, but on the other hand, if you want to offer a rebuttal, at least stay on topic.
Can a certain two guys go to your corners and take a break?
The OP asked a question. Jim Watson answered it, Winchester 73 and I contributed. The identification appears complete and correct. Unless the OP has further information I think the discussion is complete.
I have no idea how or why "the best revolver" got into the discussion, but the Perfected really wasn't it, so that is as irrelevant as someone's current or future academic qualifications.
Jim
The OP asked a question. Jim Watson answered it, Winchester 73 and I contributed. The identification appears complete and correct. Unless the OP has further information I think the discussion is complete.
I have no idea how or why "the best revolver" got into the discussion, but the Perfected really wasn't it, so that is as irrelevant as someone's current or future academic qualifications.
Jim