revelation from Seattle

J

Joe Portale

New member
Hi folks,

I just watched the afternoon news and heard this report from the NBC station. The jist of the report goes as follows: The Seattle Police originally decided to take a non-confrontational position when dealing with the protesters at the WTO Conference. As you all know, this has turned into a police- fed riot and many innocent people are getting caught in the middle. What the big news is, as reorted by NBC, is the THE SECRET SERVICE ORDERED THE SEATTLE PD AND NATIONAL GUARD TO CLEAR THE STREETS OF ANY AND ALL PEOPLE!!!

Now, I'm not so sure where I stand with the ideas of the protestors. Yet, I have to ask don't these people have the right to peacfully assemble and make their views known? Just because Klinton is attending the conference, do the rights of these people null and void? Isn't this sort of what happens in China, pick a South American country, or any of the many tin horn totalitarian states that run the UN and want to tell us what to do. Good God, this situation is getting worse and worse. What will be next, the Secret Service ordering people out of their homes to stand along the side of the road waving flags and cheering the little dictator as he drives along in his limo?

Watch people, it is the little things like this that will be the end of America as we know and love her.

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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
I'm just waiting for the 4-story-high portraits of His Billness to appear on every available surface.


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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
 
Just a guess here. Yes Americans have the right to peacefully assemble and demonstrate. But they can't do it on private property without permission. They can't do it in secure areas. The SS can set boundries as a secure area and the demonstrators cannot go in there. Once they do they violate the rules of that secure area and are arrested.

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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
 
Connieach,
just the thought of what you just wrote about "his billness", enough to make ya sick.....fubsy...
 
Four storey tv monitors playing His Billieness's "I feel your pain." speech.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Did anyone catch the footage of the cop that walked up to a guy and gave him a roundhouse jackbooted kick in the groin and then shot him point blank in the chest (luckily it glanced off) with a beanbag round from a shotgun?

These guys are brutal. Hopefully something will be done about that cowboy. Don't hold your breath though.
 
DavidW, sure private property is one thing, but sidewalks ain't private property. Anyone who even attempts to stop peaceful demonstrations on public property is an enemy of freedom.

What is a "secure area"? Anyplace that the SS says it is? Theoretically, then, the entire U.S. could be called a "secure area". If they can do it to a city or a portion of a city, then it isn't much of a leap to imagine the entire country as a "secure area".

I disagree with most of what the protesters are saying; I want the violent, vandalizing protesters fined heavily, and most of all, I want the governments of Seattle, WA and the U.S. to stay the hell out of the way of the 1st amendment.

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"In many ways we are treated quite like men." Erich Maria Remarque
 
Simply because the sidewalks are public property, does not give someone the right to do anything they please. The courts have ruled that there are limits to free speech. You can not yell fire in a crowded building; you can not produce, sell or posess child pornography; you can not demonstrate on a military base; you can not threaten the President and you can not prevent people from carrying out legal activities by blocking sidewalks and streets.

Secured areas are another well recognized issue. Should nuclear weapons labs be open to "peaceful" protesters? Military bases and courthouses? Secured areas are sometimes necessary for the protection of others.

I wonder how some of the people who seem to think that blocking sidewalks is their right would react if a "peaceful" mob were to block access to their homes or businesses, preventing them from getting home or causing them to lose customers. How would they react if a group of "peaceful" demonstrators were to march through the hallways of their childrens public schools banging drums, shouting profanities and terrorizing the students. These are all public places! Would they be so supportive of the "right" of free speech of these "peaceful" protesters in these cases? Or would they call the police and ask for the "peaceful" protesters to be removed!

With rights come responsibilities. Along with YOUR rights you have the responsibility to not infringe upon the rights of others. If you do, the government has the legal and moral obligation to put an end to your actions. That is the role of a people and government ruled by laws. To have anything else is anarchy and the law of the jungle.
 
What you all seem to be missing is just "WHY WERE THE DEMONSTRATORS DEMONSTRATING"?

You focus on the Secret Service, the police and their actions but the larger question is "what were the demonstrators demonstrating against"?

The bottom line, as Ivan would say, is that one group is trying to control another economically.

The WTO is what they were demonsrating against. Let's get to the reasons why.....or do you want to argue the lesser, insignificant factoids of simple crowd control and ignore the bigger picture.......just like the media???

Get a friggen clue here people......... Have you seen the media discuss the larger role of WTO? Or are you left with the simple soundbite that the WTO is "for your own good" and all these people are anarchists? Can you see the media manipulation here?

[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited December 04, 1999).]
 
Good point, Frank. But it looks to me that The State Media is slanted to the side of the protestors. I beleive there must be a reason why these leftists, anarchists, and Clinton oppose WTO. Usualy what these people dislike is good for us and what they support is very bad for us, ie firearms registration, more regulation, higher taxes.
 
Jim, I saw that footage and I think the "take responsibility talk" should apply to the storm troopers shooting people with bean bags point blank, non leathal my ass, you get hit right you'll go down.

If you or I did this to someone especially a cop for some reason [thought he was prowler] you can bet our ass would be swinging in the wind.

Who knows. problably just a little desensitizing for the new year if they have to call the skull breakers out.
 
Run Bill, Run!
Run Bill, Run!
Run Bill, Run!

Cause the further you go, the happier we'll be! :)

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Why are they demonstrating? Precisely:1. Nonsense, they are merely the whiners of society who see a potential gain by their mass idiocy. 2. Is the WTO a good thing? NO! It is only a centrally managed economic vehicle which serves to empower regulators at the expense of both producers and consumers. The protestors don't hate the machine, they hate being cut out of the extortion racket's cut. The WTO is not about free trade, it is about managed trade. It is about managing your economic freedom. Screw them and we should stop any protectionist policy ourselves. We all benefit from true free trade in the long term, even if the short term is temporarilly painful.
 
G-Freeman,
I like how you said that. You're not Mr. Liddy by any chance, are you? Sounds exactly like something he'd say. That's a complement.
 
I agree the WTO isn't about free trade especially the USA isn't.
Sure they say they are but in reality they aren't e.g the US tariffs on Australian lamb - our farmers just happen to be more efficient and American consumers like the better quality of it but your farmers have the political clout to get tariffs.
They say free trade but in reality it's only for certain markets that help them. The Europeans are just as bad.

Free trade if it was carried out fairly would be great but the larger economies (USA, Europe, Japan) just bully other countries into taking off tariffs but still protect their own ineficient industries.
 
Cactus: Sorry, but you've resorted to one of my pet peeves: That's "falsely" cry fire in a crowded theater. Why does everyone omit the "falsely"?; The Justice was saying that the First amendment doesn't protect FRAUD.

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
Brett, you're _almost_ right about crying "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. What most people don't remember is that example was used in a _dissenting_ opinion and has no legal force.

You _can_, in fact, cry "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. You'll probably be arrested for disturbing the peace, criminal mischief, interfering in the theatre-owner's business, and so forth, though. You'll probably have your ass sued off by the folks who injured in the panic you caused, too. But those are all consequences that _follow_ from your act--you are not prohibited from doing so; you just have to be prepared for the results.
 
Obviously, none of us approve of the window smashing, graffiti, looting, etc.

But, I think it's great that the collective "we" aren't yet so apathetic that we can still stand up in the streets and protest with a loud enough voice to effect immediate change (the shutdown of the WTO summit).

The way the protest was terminated was wrong. Although I have nothing against nuclear energy, it is a workable analogy for my point. If the government dictates that you cannot protest against nuclear energy --at the gates of the nuclear generating plant--, your protest is useless.

By the way, there is an excellent thread at AR15.com concerning the declaration of the downtown Seattle area being a protest-free zone, and the summary confiscation of gas masks.

The excesses and abuses of our government are occurring at an accelerating pace.

This isn't the America I was born in.
 
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