Resizing TL Bullets, revisited.

T

TXGunNut

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I've read an old thread or two but didn't get to shoot this weekend so will throw this out at the risk of plowing ground that has already been well cultivated.
I've recently strayed from my Lyman BPCR and 45 Colt bullets with SPG lube to TL Lee 45acp 200 grainers with lla. Bullets dropped from my new moulds @ .452-453" :D with a ww alloy that seemed a bit tin deficient.
I didn't seriously consider sizing until after I'd already TL'd 200 and loaded 100. I realize "shoot them" will be the most common answer but if you disagree I'd like to know why.
I'm reading the book by Fryxell and Thompson linked on another thread and they aren't big on TL boolits but they seem to think they're OK for my 45acp loads. I know several of you are TL fans so I'm thinking I need your input.
 
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Some folks aren't big on TL bullets and that's okay. Lots of us love them. I've got several TL design bullet molds and use them a lot. They're different from traditional bullets. Not better or worse, just different and require different treatment.

I've got a TL bullet for the .38 special, the TL358-158-SWC that I've been loading for almost two decades. I've loaded it mild and wild and it does well in either mode. My standard load for that bullet runs about 750 fps and give excellent accuracy in any revolver we push it through. I've also loaded it to 1350 fps and it gives good service.

I've got two custom mold for the TL design, by a guy called Ranch Dog. He designed a TL .308 cal bullet that weighs about 170 grains depending on your alloy. He also designed a TL bullet at 180 grains for the .358 caliber. Both of those take gas checks and are fine performers. I push the .30 cal 170 grain bullet to 1879 fps from my .30-30 with no problem.

Another TL bullet that I use a lot is the TL452-230-RN. I use it as a bullet for the .45 ACP pushed by 4.6 grains of Bullseye. I don't size that bullet at all, but run it as-cast. I do push the whole cartridge into a Factory Crimp die to iron out the case flare and make sure that the cartridge will chamber.
 
I shoot TL bullets in both handguns and rifles. Ed Harris designed a TL .312 dia. 160 gr. gas checked TL bullet for use in the 7.62 x 39mm cartridges,I use the TL bullet in my SKS rifle as well as the 7.62 x 54r bolt gun and size it down .001" and shoot in in my 300 Sav. MV runs anywhere from 1400 fps. to 2000 fps with no issues.

I also shoot the Lee TL bullets in my 38/357 loads,shot as cast and two coats of Lee Alox/JPW lube again no leading issues. I even TL non TL bullets for my no gas check 30 cal. plinking loads,avg. MV for those is 1200 fps.

TL bullets are designed to be shot as cast,you can resize them if needed as long as it's not to much and you remove the micro lube grooves.
 
Thanks guys. I know TL bullets have their fans and sizing usually isn't an issue with them. Lee has such a cool sizer setup that I thought i was missing something. You using Lee lube, PawPaw? I'm guessing you cook your own recipe.
Care to tell me about your 30-30 plinkers, res45? PawPaw? A cast bullet load in 30-30 is on my project list. That would probably rate a new thread.
Now I know why some folks like steel moulds, others like aluminum. Some like dipping lead, others like bottom pour pots. Totally different schools of thought. I like them all so far, just not very comfortable with any of them yet.
Keep those brass custom moulds away from me, OK? I might decide I like them, too!-
 
I use the Lee .309 170 gr. RNFP shot as cast from WW alloy BHN 12,no gas check needed,two light coats of Lee Alox/JPW lube. I use 7.0 grs. of Alliant Red Dot,no filler needed. MV chronoed at 1250+fps. no recoil and the kids love shooting them.
 
Sounds like fun, res45. Thanks. (Wrote your recipe in a small blank spot in my Lee manual, somehow they overlooked it.)
 
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PawPaw, did Ranch Dog have a Marlin in .35 Remington in mind when he designed that .358 TL GC boolit? I think a .35 Rem (in a Marlin) makes more sense than a .30-30 (in a 94) but the .30-30 is first on the list. Neither project is off paper yet, things can change.:D
 
I'm still reading that one, res45. Picked up the first copy of the fourth edition that I could get my hands on. Great read, I'll make it to the load data section any day now. :)
 
Finally got to shoot those TL 45 acp bullets, pretty sweet! Feeding was flawless, no leading and my old recipe of 5.5 grs of 231 still gets it done. Triple digit heat curtailed the brass recovery effort but it was a very good outing, all in all. Shot some Berry's bullets as well, very nice but rather boring.;)
Mebbe I can cast more tomorrow, won't take long to get the moulds up to operating temp! :D
 
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TXGunNut said:
PawPaw, did Ranch Dog have a Marlin in .35 Remington in mind when he designed that .358 TL GC boolit?
Click to expand...

Yes, Ranch Dog made a tumble lube bullet for the .35 Rem. It's a gas-check design with a wide meplat that runs about 180 grains. Karma being what it is, it also works very well as a heavy thumper in the .357 magnum. I use a stiff charge of L'il Gun to push it to about 1200 fps in my revolver and 1600 in my Marlin 1894.

I haven't yet tried it in the .35 Remington.
 
Sounds like quite a "thumper", PawPaw. Suddenly it seems I have a T/C pistol and a Marlin 336 that are being underutilized.
So many projects, so little time.
 
Cast another 250 or so TL bullets this morning. Quit @ 10a, already 93 degrees.:eek: Put a few ounces if tin in the melt and fill improved dramatically. This bunch of WW has a slight tin deficiency. Two cavity Lee mould so much faster than my single cavity Lyman rifle moulds but I fould myself thinking about a six-cavity mould for my 45ACP casting. My two cavity mould is difficult to get lined up right every time and I'm thinking I might as well upgrade if I'm going to replace it.
 
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I've been following this thread with some interest. I am a new caster and I went the route of TL bullets. I cast for plinking, so I haven't made it to the point that I buy more expensive molds (moulds) for super-accuracy.

I've tried cast-lube-load, cast-lube-size-load, cast-lube-size-lube-load, and cast-size-lube-load. I can't tell any difference in the shooting, other than if I put sizing somewhere in the mix, the bullet seating seems to go better.
 
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Which mould, miker84? Haven't tried sizing yet but bullets are dropping out very close to ideal as far as I'm concerned.
 
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TXGunNut, I'm using the Lee TL moulds. You are correct in that they drop close to the right size. I'm sizing them as an extra step that may not be needed but I think it helps in the loading stage in terms of seating the bullet.

When I run them through the sizing die, I find that most of them barely touch the die. The ones that do touch the die seem to size mainly at the base of the boolit.

Out of a batch .38's that I cast and sized recently:

84 went through with no or very slight sizing marks
29 went through with noticable sizing on the base of the boolit
4 were undersized and didn't "catch" in the Lee die
1 smoothed down the lube rings too much (oversized)
2 had defects in the base due to bad fill out.

I figure the 29 might have caused some shaving if I didn't size them or may have given me some headaches while trying to set the flare on the case mouth.
 
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Lubed some TL bullets with Rooster Jacket lube last week, loaded and shot them today. Gun had spring and bore fouling issues, some FTF's as well.
As soon as the Big Brown Truck brings me some shiny bits from Brownells I'll be back in business. :(
 
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Seems last week's failure to feed may have been alloy related. I added a bit of tin and bullets are a bit bigger than straight WW's, went from .452 to .454 and .455. Straight WW's shot just fine but I thought I'd have better fill w/ a little bit of tin. I think I'll save my tin for rifle bullets. :( Using mostly range brass and a .455 bullet in a thick-walled case is just a smidge more than my chamber will reliably digest.
Other option is one of Lee's sizing tools. Guess I could run them thru my Lyman without lube but what's the fun in that?
 
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I shoot Lee Tumble Lube bullets, lubed as cast.

I've had two issues:

1) The Lee 230 grain LRN TL bullet has a very pronounced "step" from the base of the bullet ogive to the maximum diameter of the shoulder of the bullet. Combined with the thickness of the case mouth brass, you are looking at quite a step at the case mouth. It was enough to cause bullets to fail to extract in my Ruger P90 - the case rim of the ejecting round would catch on that step and the extractor would tear through/off the rim, leaving the round jammed.

Here are some pages that show my problem:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bullets/problems/problems.htm
http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bullets/problems/sizes.htm

I switched to Lee 230 grain truncated cone TL bullets and the problem has reduced. Now I'm still getting some sticking on the "bulge" in the brass caused by the bullet being driven home. I have run the bullets through the Lee Factory Crimp Die to try and minimize the problem.

2) The other problem I have with Lee Alox Lube is that it coats the entire bullet, including the nose of the bullet. Originally, I did not wipe this varnish off of the nose of completed cartridges, and when I cleaned my pistol there was a noticeable buildup of varnish on the feed ramp. I originally thought this might be part of the reason I was having failures to extract as per note #1 above.

So now I use a cloth and "wipe the noses" of all my finished cartridges to remove the Lee Alox Lube from the exposed nose of the bullet.

Steve
 
I'm ordering a Lee .452" sizing kit, it's on sale @ Midway! :D Somehow a 6-cavity Lee mould (TL452-200-SWC) and a pair of handles jumped into my cart as well. ;) Two-cavity mould works pretty well but have had alignment issues and would like to increase production rate as well. My little Colt really likes this bullet so I didn't bother with the TC or RN designs.
I suspect a sizer may solve your issues as well, Steve. I use the SWC design as both my Colts will digest almost any bullet, one old warhorse will even feed empty cases from a magazine.
 
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